Pakistan Sets Eyes on China’s New J-35 Fighter Jet

[LKJ86]

For that we have to wait till the end of 2021. Next year both companies will launch prototypes as the company which makes j20 have clearly said we have something new coming next year , while talking about j20 they hinted about new different version of it.

In AVIC, the winner can't take all.

 

[maverick1977]

Our pilots have even flown your new Rafael jets before you even got the chance to land them in India. Not exactly yours but they flew Rafael of a friendly country.

i am from Pakistan living in US.

 

[Akh1112]

This won't get selected by Pakistani Top Brass , it won't pass the high standard for trials

• Z-10 for rejected for Mythical , Super Cobras we had 4 machines we returned it politely
• J-10B order was halted after General Musharraf had done all the good work
• MPT Turkish Rifles were , again not up to Mythical high standards but 1950 rifles are great
• No push was made to acquire South African Helicopters
• In 90's when we had few Destroyers available it was deemed too expensive
• 20 years War on Terror and we are still driving Toyota Trucks while world armies are using Armored Carriers

Once in blue moon a missile is launched at Sea targeting a mermaid

Right, i genuinely think you are being stupid now.


"Z-10 for rejected for Mythical , Super Cobras we had 4 machines we returned it politely"


Z-10's suffer from crippling engine issues. Their effective payload carrying capability is cut in half. Its a pretty big deal.


"J-10B order was halted after General Musharraf had done all the good work"


Yes, a good thing really, rejected in turn for focus on the JF-17, an aircraft that makes up a very significant part of the PAF inventory while actively contributing to our economy, giving us countless amounts of experience on manufacturing of high performance aircraft alongside the experience from working with and integrating solutions from various OEM's, both eastern and western, something the J-10 cannot deliver. '


"MPT Turkish Rifles were , again not up to Mythical high standards but 1950 rifles are great"

Cant comment on this, dont know enough about personnel weapons, ill leave that to someone else.


"No push was made to acquire South African Helicopters"

The Rooivalk would be a logistical nightmare. There are only enough Helos to equip one squadron in the SAA. There is no infrastructure in place for a customer like Pakistan who realistically, would be looking to purchase a significant ish amount. It also suffers/ed from outdated avionics by the turn of the 20th century. Alongside this, its a costly proposition considering they don't benefit from large economies of scale like others do.


"In 90's when we had few Destroyers available it was deemed too expensive"

What is your obsession with destroyers?? In like every other post you are going on about how we need destroyers. Regardless, the options for destroyers were pretty poor. The best bet would have been the Brooke class, even then, the OHP was superior in every way.


"20 years War on Terror and we are still driving Toyota Trucks while world armies are using Armored Carriers"


Uhm, i don't know who has told you we don't have APC's. There is a time and a need for everything however. I don't see why someone would dedicate a idk, 10 man APC to 2 people who are trying to get to a FOB behind friendly lines or whatever.

 

[araz]

And we are working also on project AZM, if FC-31 or its modified version will induct into PAF then it will be a bonus for Pakistan but i don't think it will happen because it would kill project AZM prospect

I understand that PAC on its own cannot design and engineer a stealth fighter. As such it will be a collaborative project with input from Turkey and China. There maybe other stake holders as well who will end up buying the finished product in return for investment into the project now. What I do not understand is if the J31/TFX was our aim why do we give ourselves a decade to complete the project. Just get manufacturing rights and get a fighter in our inventory in 2025. I think the truth always lies somewhere in the middle in that PAC will design the fighter but engine and many other hardware items may come from other countries. This is the way we hqve gone qnd given the scale of our needs it makes sense. We maybe able to write software and otherbits maybe manufactured in house with licen e building at this stage but perhaps manufacturing from material bought elsewhere. I think along the way there maybe opportunities to try out newer tech on JFT and therefore think next block or block 5 may have to have the design reopened.
Love to hear the views of other members.
A

 

[zhxy]

Stealth aircraft are very important, but no stealth aircraft, no problem. Nukes are always the most reliable pillar

In the case of China and the US.

The United States is not afraid of J-20. The United States does not attack China because:

1. Economic transactions between the two countries are huge
2. DF-17, DF-41, DF-100, JL-2, JL-3.

 

[araz]

Realistically, there was no way the PAF could design and develop a fifth gen fighter from scratch. Project Azm, whatever it eventually turns out to be, was always going to heavily rely on a collaboration partner, most likely China given the precedent, and using the JF-17 programme philosophy, but the Turkish TFX as a potential outlier.

Whether that's a bespoke design suited for PAF's requirements or an existing design is yet to be seen. IMO, it's unlikely to be a bespoke design, like the JF-17, because I doubt either the PAF could fully fund Azm's development, nor would the Chinese partially fund a bespoke design for the PAF if there's little chance the PLAF would acquire it in large numbers, given that they already have two fifth gen designs. The JF-17 was an exception because it was a relatively simple design, I think the total development cost was something like USD 500m back in the late 1990s, split 50/50. That isn't going to be the case this time. That realistically only leaves the FC-31/J-35 updated to meet the PAF's needs.

The Chinese it seems lately are more inclined to sell rather than build/assemble in Pakistan. This would not be what PAF wants. The Turks are at the right moment in their developmental cycle for us to go with them in return for work share agreement which one MAY NOT get from China. This is the only addition to your very good post I would like to make.
A

 

[Figaro]

Z-10's suffer from crippling engine issues. Their effective payload carrying capability is cut in half. Its a pretty big deal.

This is not true. The Z-10 contrary to what many people say is not actually underpowered. Its engine is rated at 1100 kW ... do you actually think it is in the same class of attack helicopters as the Apache or the Mi-28? The original Z-10's engines were at around 900 kW, making them somewhat underpowered but not "crippled".

Stealth aircraft are very important, but no stealth aircraft, no problem. Nukes are always the most reliable pillar

In the case of China and the US.

The United States is not afraid of J-20. The United States does not attack China because:

1. Economic transactions between the two countries are huge
2. DF-17, DF-41, DF-100, JL-2, JL-3.

The US will need to gain air superiority within the first Island Chain in any war with China (whether it be over Taiwan or the SCS). The J-20 leads the forefront of those efforts ... they are the single largest threat to the USAF in the Pacific besides the SAM systems.

 

[zhxy]

The Chinese it seems lately are more inclined to sell rather than build/assemble in Pakistan. This would not be what PAF wants. The Turks are at the right moment in their developmental cycle for us to go with them in return for work share agreement which one MAY NOT get from China. This is the only addition to your very good post I would like to make.
A

China has a good relationship with Pakistan, but Turkey does too. What happens if Pakistan secretly transfers information or resells J-10, J-20, J-31 to Turkey? China trusts Pakistan, but does not want to risk gambling. Historically, China has made a mistake, namely military cooperation with Turkey, transferring them many military technologies. Currently Turkey is one of the countries with the most hostile attitude to China. China does not want to repeat past mistakes

 

[Figaro]

China has a good relationship with Pakistan, but Turkey does too. What happens if Pakistan secretly transfers information or resells J-10, J-20, J-31 to Turkey? China trusts Pakistan, but does not want to risk gambling. Historically, China has made a mistake, namely military cooperation with Turkey, transferring them many military technologies. Currently Turkey is one of the countries with the most hostile attitude to China. China does not want to repeat past mistakes

Actually China's relationship with Turkey is pretty good now. I think the lowest point was around 2015 or 2016 ... they no longer even criticize China's Uyghur policy as of late. And Turkey wants to join CPEC too.

https://www.oboreurope.com/en/turkey-cpec-pakistan/

 

[Indos]

China has a good relationship with Pakistan, but Turkey does too. What happens if Pakistan secretly transfers information or resells J-10, J-20, J-31 to Turkey? China trusts Pakistan, but does not want to risk gambling. Historically, China has made a mistake, namely military cooperation with Turkey, transferring them many military technologies. Currently Turkey is one of the countries with the most hostile attitude to China. China does not want to repeat past mistakes

If China doesnt want to sell its J31/35 to Pakistan, Pakistan can still get KFX/IFX (if the project is succesfull). No problemo. I believe US will allow that as well as it has allowed Pakistan to buy F16 Block 52.

 

[Figaro]

If China doesnt want to sell its J31/35 to Pakistan, Pakistan can still get KFX/IFX (if the project is succesfull). No problemo. I believe US will allow that as well as it allows Pakistan to buy F16 Block 52.

J-35 will imho most likely be available for export ... J-20 won't though.

 

[RedHulk]

China has a good relationship with Pakistan, but Turkey does too. What happens if Pakistan secretly transfers information or resells J-10, J-20, J-31 to Turkey? China trusts Pakistan, but does not want to risk gambling. Historically, China has made a mistake, namely military cooperation with Turkey, transferring them many military technologies. Currently Turkey is one of the countries with the most hostile attitude to China. China does not want to repeat past mistakes

Turkish people have a mind of their own. So far they are not happy with any one be it USA, Russia, China even Pakistan faced their wrath when there was a military co. So I don't think we should collaborate with turkey on such a big project. They might have gave us some input but in exchange we might buy their other stuff specially for navy. But Turkey will not become a part of this J35 and abandon their TFX project.

 

[Indos]

J-35 will imho most likely be available for export ... J-20 won't though.

Any hint about the WS 19 completion ? Is it really close in diameter/length/weigh with F 414 GE ?

 

[Figaro]

Any hint about the WS 19 completion ? Is it really close in diameter/length/weigh with F 414 GE ?

Definitely within a couple years ... similar to the WS-15. Should be similar to the F414 yes. T/W ratio of 9.5 to 10.

 

[zhxy]

This is not true. The Z-10 contrary to what many people say is not actually underpowered. Its engine is rated at 1100 kW ... do you actually think it is in the same class of attack helicopters as the Apache or the Mi-28? The original Z-10's engines were at around 900 kW, making them somewhat underpowered but not "crippled".

Z-10ME has graphene armor. This shows that China has solved the engine problem or the Z-10 engine problem still exists but it did not matter much.