Pakistan set to test missile this week

[Peaceful Civilian]

All of u, expect a big big surprise!!!!!!

Are you pointing finger towards ICBM?

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Are you pointing finger towards ICBM?

akal mand k lea ishara he kafi ha.

 

[Humble Analyst]

In March 2015 Shaheen III was tested on same Coordinates

ARABIAN SEA. Pakistan. Charts BA 4071 and 4705. Missile firing will be carried out between 0400 to 0700 UTC on 09 and 10 mar 15 in area bounded by following coordinates:
Corridor (a) 25-43.83N 066-19.45E
(b) 25-16.83N 067-11.36E
(c) 02-00.30N 054-18.62E
(d) 02-27.26N 053-30.92E

Altitude 692000 Metres
Ships and Craft are to keep well clear and not to enter assigned danger area on above specified dates and time.

The distance is approximately 1500 natical miles, or approximately 2800 Km. Altitude tells me it has potential to go beyond where it is going.

 

[HRK]

What message ??
how decrease or increase in apogee effect the akhlaaq o kirdaar of any missile ??

the only thing i still remeber about projectile motion is that at 45 degree angle projectile cover maximum distance. . .
Can,t relate this with my question.....

Trajectories & apogee of trajectory effect the maximum distance

for basic understanding read following ....

Range of a projectile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Trajectory of a projectile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sharma1111]

@HRK

Missile NOTAM show the maximal attitude,range of the Shahen III missile spec ( 692 KM, 2750+KM).
For e.g.
1. Agni II have maximal supported altitude of 600 KM & 2000KM range for full payload
Source: November 9, 2014
The 20-metre-tall Agni-II zoomed to an altitude of 600 km and began its descent before splashing near its pre-designated impact point in the Bay of Bengal with “two-digit accuracy.”

1. Agni IV have maximal supported height of 900km which provides it range of 4000 KM but many other depressed version of 850KM, 500 KM were tested for reduced range.

e.g "missile was first tested in November 2011 from Wheeler Island. It rose to an altitude of about 900km during the test"

e.g December 2, 2014
DRDO missile engineer also said Agni-IV was deliberately tested for a range of 3,000 km & height 500 Km

 

[Hyperion]

Phirr say L na lagg jayen'. Yeh na ho, khoda pahar, nilka chooha!

 

[Mrc]

Apogee is that of shaheen 2...
Shaheen 3 can be launched with lower apogee at longer range

 

[Humble Analyst]

The distance is approximately 1500 natical miles, or approximately 2800 Km. Altitude tells me it has potential to go beyond where it is going.

The altitude and distance solved by two simple right angle triangles and assuming apex will be midway, the angle comes to approximately 26 degrees. This confirms that the potential to increase the range is approximately 35-40%. Very roughly calculated, using plain geometry if spherical trigonometry is applied taking into account the earth's curvature the angle is higher and range potential slightly decreases.

 

[sharma1111]

The altitude and distance solved by two simple right angle triangles and assuming apex will be midway, the angle comes to approximately 26 degrees. This confirms that the potential to increase the range is approximately 35-40%. Very roughly calculated.

Its not a projectile which has max velocity at T= 0 .

I did give an example of Agni II which have range of 2000 KM with maximal altitude of 600 KM.
Another test of Agni-II reached an altitude of 220 km with similar range of 2000 Km in Sep 30, 2011

Missiles dont behave like a typical projectile as they burn the fuel along the path.

You should calculate the range of ballistic missile with projectile logic only after both solid rocket engines are removed.

e.g Some times, Agni II have max altitude of 220 KM but they continue to travel horizontally for longer distance until the 2nd engine is released. In this case, Projectile phase starts very close to destination

While Agni II with max altitude of 600 KM travel for less distance and the 2nd engine is released at much height. The potential energy of higher height imparts is to travel similar distance. Projectile phase starts farther from designation

Source

The ballistic trajectory of projectile is set by its speed and direction at the instant when the initial propulsion has stopped. After this point no further control of the projectile's trajectory is possible. For an artillery shell this point is when the projectile emerges from the gun barrel. For rocket powered ballistic missiles the ballistic trajectory starts when the rocket motor is turned off.



As noted above, the maximum range on level ground occurs when launch angle of elecation of the projectile is 45°. But a rocket begins its ballistic trajectory at high altitude, equivalent to starting somewhere along the trajectory of a projectile launched from the ground. In this case the maximum range will occur at a angle of elevation offset from 45°. Similarly the maximum range of an artillery shell lauched from an elevated site to a target below will also be offset from 45°



The actual trajectory followed by a projectile will be influenced by the prevailing atmospheric wind conditions encountered during the flight as well as the density of the air through which it travels which affects the drag (See opposite top). For very high trajectories the affect of reduced gravity at high altitudes must be also taken into account. (See below)

 

[Humble Analyst]

Its not a projectile which has max velocity at T= 0 .

I did give an example of Agni II which have range of 2000 KM with maximal altitude of 600 KM.
Another test of Agni-II reached an altitude of 220 km with similar range of 2000 Km in Sep 30, 2011

Missiles dont behave like a typical projectile as they burn the fuel along the path.

You should calculate the range of ballistic missile with projectile logic only once both solid rocket engines are removed.

e.g Some times, Agni II have max altitude of 220 KM but they continue to travel horizontally for longer distance until the 2nd engine is released. In this case, Projectile starts at very close to destination

While Agni II with max altitude of 600 KM travel for less distance and the 2nd engine is released at much height. The potential energy of higher height imparts is to travel similar distance. Projectile starts farther to designation with more potential energy

Source

This is just scratch pad calculations of primitive nature, actual facts will be different.

 

[sharma1111]

This is just scratch pad calculations of primitive nature, actual facts will be different.

Dude, You are treating missile like a projectile

Angle of projection doesnt matter much in missiles. There is no air friction above karman line (100 Km height).

Your projection logic should be applied once all the engine are burnt.

Calculate projectile with T= 0 the time shaheen III 2nd stage rocket separates.
Then you can easily approximate the range of missile.
Ofcourse once RV enters karman line the thrusters are switched on for few seconds to jettison them at vertical angle which reduces the shock wave otherwise atmospheric entry will burn RV & slow it down to speech of mach 2-3.
In short, the RV dives like a swimmer in water while it touches the karman line.

Refer to the quoted source in post #39

 

[AUz]

All of u, expect a big big surprise!!!!!!

Do you have any insight ya phir bs chawalain hi mar raha hai tu umair bhai

Na kar yar, phlay b bht dafah is tarah hua hai or baad mein aa ja k wohi fazool old systems test ho jatay hain

Phirr say L na lagg jayen'. Yeh na ho, khoda pahar, nilka chooha!

Beta, knowing Pakistan---be ready L lagnay k liye

Dude, You are treating missile like a projectile

Angle of projection doesnt matter much in missiles. There is no air friction above karman line (100 Km height).

Your projection logic should be applied once all the engine are burnt.

Calculate projectile with T= 0 the time shaheen III 2nd stage rocket separates.
Then you can easily approximate the range of missile.
Ofcourse once RV enters karman line the thrusters are switched on for few seconds to jettison them at vertical angle which reduces the shock wave otherwise atmospheric entry will burn RV & slow it down to speech of mach 2-3.
In short, the RV dives like a swimmer in water while it touches the karman line.

Refer to the quoted source in post #39

According to your estimates, with stated apogee of Shaheen II and III, what is the maximum possible range Pakistan can successfully launch these missiles upto?

Any insight?

 

[Zarvan]

A friend claims that Shaheen III actual range is 3500 KM. By the way good otherwise I was going to start a thread on why no missile testing for such long time

 

[sharma1111]

Do you have any insight ya phir bs chawalain hi mar raha hai tu umair bhai

Na kar yar, phlay b bht dafah is tarah hua hai or baad mein aa ja k wohi fazool old systems test ho jatay hain



Beta, knowing Pakistan---be ready L lagnay k liye



According to your estimates, with stated apogee of Shaheen II and III, what is the maximum possible range Pakistan can successfully launch these missiles upto?

Any insight?

We discussed the problem of using height to calculate range.
Shaheen II/III diameter is around 1.4 meter but the weight is around 23.6 tons.
In comparison, Agni II weigh 16 tonn but diameter for Agni II is 1.3 meter
Agni II has length of 21 meter as compared to 17.38 meter for Shaheen II.

Assume 10 % more diameter is proportional to R^2 = 121 % which means 20% change in per unit volume. Hence theoretically, Shaheen II length is 17.38*1.2=~21 meter

=>Both missiles are of same volume but Shaheen II is heavier than Agni II

But 6-7 tonns extra weight(due to lack of composite while agni II used some composite) undermines its range. Shaheen II range should be around ~1500-1700 KM

Shaheen III looks similar to Shaheen II but appears lighter to shaheen II. The diameter is same.if the weight is around 20 tons then range more than 3000 KM is almost impossible for any size of payload
I doubt if Shaheen can deliver 1000 kg of payload at distance more than 2500Km(if it uses similar fuel but weigh more than agni II)
My estimates say that Shaheen III range of 2750 KM is exaggerated.

1000 Kg: 2000-2500 KM
500 kg: 2750 KM
Weight reduction by having composite in single stage : 3 tons
Pak will have to make 1 stage of solid rocket engine composite if it desires to launch payload of 1000 kg payload in 2750-3000 Km range

 

[Zarvan]

All of u, expect a big big surprise!!!!!!

What is your source ? If this surprise doesn't happen I would be really pissed of