Pakistan seeks recording of Jinnah calling for secular state

[RuheTag]

Its a big deal for us. You left a land that was mother to you for millenia. You left a people that were your brothers and sisters for millenia.

Because you were told and led to believe that the faith you now practiced was at odds with the faith you practiced for millenia.



You're really on a roll if you think the majority of users here are Pakistani.

No mate, nobody told them. They saw their own problems. it is human nature to devide themselves with language, color, culture, religion, etc. At some places they go along well despite of differences, at majority of places they dont. This is a universal thing, not just confined to South Asia. This is a human tendancy and we should accept that.

Those who would have been been happy with the political situation of Muslims in British India, why would they want to be separate? Nobody had drugged them for saying that. Hard but fact.

Well, Ok my bad. I didnt knew that most users here are not Pakistanis, I just signed up a few days ago. Try another forum perhaps.

 

[vsdoc]

Those who would have been been happy with the political situation of Muslims in British India, why would they want to be separate? Nobody had drugged them for saying that. Hard but fact.

You speak as if it was a democratic vote at the time.

The decision was taken on behalf of the community at large by a few. Very few.

The land was cleaved. The boundaries decided.

Those already there would not move.

Those caught on the wrong side of the religious divide more often than not were forced to move. Or die.

This has been called the biggest human migration of the modern world. How can you be so blaise about that?

Point to note for Pakistanis here: Your attitude towards the loss of Bangladesh versus ours towards Partition, should open your eyes.

Yes today everyone will say it was for the better and there is no going back nor do we want to. But the resentment and anger uniformly all over by ALL Indians (and not just Punjabi, Sindhi and Bengali) should tell you something.

 

[Rafi]

^^^^^
Here come the patronizing indians, please we are happy to achieve independence from the British Empire, nation states that achieve freedom have to wade through blood, just ask the Russians - "their great Patriotic war" makes our losses pail in significance.

It had to be done, if only the British did not do it, in such a rush - and tried to keep order, maybe the killing could have been kept under control. But thanks to the Almighty we have a country of our own.

The Quaid was a visionary - he wanted his children to be religious in a modern way, like our Turkish brothers under Erdogan, a perfect synthesis of both worlds. It must be our endeavor to get there.

 

[RuheTag]

You speak as if it was a democratic vote at the time.

The decision was taken on behalf of the community at large by a few. Very few.

The land was cleaved. The boundaries decided.

Those already there would not move.

Those caught on the wrong side of the religious divide more often than not were forced to move. Or die.

This has been called the biggest human migration of the modern world. How can you be so blaise about that?

Point to note for Pakistanis here: Your attitude towards the loss of Bangladesh versus ours towards Partition, should open your eyes.

Yes today everyone will say it was for the better and there is no going back nor do we want to. But the resentment and anger uniformly all over by ALL Indians (and not just Punjabi, Sindhi and Bengali) should tell you something.

Now you are questioning the process how the people decided for a separate land. Well, without going into detail of that process, a simple example is to ask current if that was what they wanted? They will say YES.

My attitude towards Bangladesh is just fine. I am not celebrating their separation nor refusing to admit their creation of country. Those events of 1971 were regretful and sad that they were separated and India played major role in their separation, to avenge their enemy Pakistan.
If it was upto me, I would have kept them togethor, and would have tried to make sure that they are happy to be Pakistanis. Since its 40 years old story, its only talk of that. Bangladesh is now a separate country and I believe they are happy with that and I wish them a bright future and prosperity.

 

[vsdoc]

^^^ Jinnah said a lot of things.

Our Muslims prove him wrong.

His daughter proved him wrong.

Bangladesh proved him wrong.

You prove him wrong.

Take your pick Rafi.

 

[RuheTag]

^^^ Jinnah said a lot of things.

Our Muslims prove him wrong.

His daughter proved him wrong.

Bangladesh proved him wrong.

You prove him wrong.

Take your pick Rafi.

Jinnah was not wrong. He was previously with Congress but after seeing the attitude of Congress towards Muslims he decided to pursue the struggle for a separate land, which he achieved. The creation of Bangladesh wasnt failure of Jinnah, it was failure of Pakistani elite of 1960s and 1970s and due to Indian conspircies and attacks on east Pakistan.

 

[vsdoc]

Jinnah was not wrong. He was previously with Congress but after seeing the attitude of Congress towards Muslims he decided to pursue the struggle for a separate land, which he achieved. The creation of Bangladesh wasnt failure of Jinnah, it was failure of Pakistani elite of 1960s and 1970s.

Bro, you are new here. And I have heard these lines regurgitated a million times already before this out here.

I don't know where to begin ..... or whether I even should.

 

[RuheTag]

or whether I even should.

Better not.. there is no point digging old graves. Better thing is to look towards future and make it better. There is alot which can be done in South Asia to make it a better place. A harmonious relationship between India and Pakistan is in interest of people of the region.

 

[vsdoc]

Better not.. there is no point digging old graves. Better thing is to look towards future and make it better. There is alot which can be done South Asia to make it better. A harmonious relationship between India and Pakistan is in interest of people of the region.

I agree.

Where do you propose we should start?

 

[ephone]

Pakistan can have a good future if it becomes a secular state. Otherwise, it is hard to get out of the chaos.

 

[RuheTag]

I agree.

Where do you propose we should start?

As a common citizen of the countries there is nothing much we can do to change political problems at goverment level.

The least thing we can do is to avoid typical Indian-Pakistan rhetoric and dirt here or any other forum so that we atleast arent contributing to the hatred and resentment.

 

[vsdoc]

Pakistan can have a good future if it becomes a secular state. Otherwise, it is hard to get out of the chaos.

I've heard this line before .... as the magic panacea by young liberal Pakistanis.

But somehow I do not see the need or the advantage thereof.

Secular for who?

Who is left of the white band of their flag?

Do they even matter whether they are pampered or converted or killed?

Will "secular" solve their problems amongst one another as collective muslims?

 

[RuheTag]

Pakistan can have a good future if it becomes a secular state. Otherwise, it is hard to get out of the chaos.

Pakistan can (and hopefully will) have a good future if it can control militancy inside the country, repair the economy and have a better goverment to run the country. The reason of hope is that, now a days young Pakistanis are awaked and are actively following politics and that can make a difference in next election.

Just going secular isnt going to solve all of the problems (and nor is possible suddenely now).

 

[vsdoc]

As a common citizen of the countries there is nothing much we can do to change political problems at goverment level.

I don't know about you guys, but we can vote. We do vote. We bring down governemnts that we do not want. We bring in leadership we do. As common citizens. There is nothing common about us when elections come around. And elections ALWAYS come around. Even when sometimes our leaders do not want them to.

The least thing we can do is to avoid typical Indian-Pakistan rhetoric and dirt here or any other forum so that we atleast arent contributing to the hatred and resentment.

On the contrary, forums such as these are great sounding boards. You do however realize that those of us on these forums from both sides are not really representative of the larger mass of our respective people, don't you?

 

[RuheTag]

I don't know about you guys, but we can vote. We do vote. We bring down governemnts that we do not want. We bring in leadership we do. As common citizens. There is nothing common about us when elections come around. And elections ALWAYS come around. Even when sometimes our leaders do not want them to.



On the contrary, forums such as these are great sounding boards. You do however realize that those of us on these forums from both sides are not really representative of the larger mass of our respective people, don't you?

yes, we are not representatives. What I am saying here is an opinion not neccasarily shared by all of the Pakistanis. We are just a litrate middle class who can use internet in their free time.

and of course vote is also very important , as I said above next election in Pakistan are going to decide the future of the country.