Pakistan seeks new US deal after returning nine choppers

[Joe Shearer]

please explain why reverse is true

I watched the Tejas being designed and developed, and I also watched Dhruv. Helicopters are far more complicated mechanisms to design and develop, from my observation; all the more so when a range of technologies is used in design. There was the time when a particular processing system was used to design the rotor blades (CAD); when it was translated to another system for production control (CAM), the top and bottom sections were out of alignment for a fraction of a millimetre.

The reason why Dhruv was successful so rapidly and Tejas was so slow was because Dhruv was done by the Rotary Wing section of HAL D&D, headed by the only senior board level officer who was NOT a Managing Director. He was a slave driver, and had a violent temper, and nobody willingly crossed his path, not even the Air Force officers; fortunately, they had no veto power over the Dhruv development and didn't add mirchi masala. That Director D&D later became the first Chairman of HAL to have joined as a trainee and risen to the top, at an age that gave him seven years in office. Tejas was done by a multiplicity of agencies, headed by brilliantly intelligent men who were mild, self-effacing characters in real life, and could be pushed around and bullied by intellectual light-weights, and were. The D&D man was nowhere near as brilliant as Kota, but he had drive and forceful energy that I have seldom seen elsewhere; he also had genuine human feeling, as I have personal reason to have learnt. Some day I might tell that story.

For you, I would strongly recommend build heavily on your UAVs, using the aeronautical knowledge that collaborating on the JF 17 has brought to you. Look for helicopters later.

Incidentally, there are several varieties of helicopter: utility, combined gunship and troop carrier, heavy load lifter, gunship or attack helicopter, scout, and stealth. You would be best off doing a general purpose utility and building off branches or variants from that.

 

[Bossman]

Dhruv was a complete failure until It got help from German MBB in its design and development as well as from the French and the Americans among others. Its basically a German design with a French engine and mostly other foreign parts.

I watched the Tejas being designed and developed, and I also watched Dhruv. Helicopters are far more complicated mechanisms to design and develop, from my observation; all the more so when a range of technologies is used in design. There was the time when a particular processing system was used to design the rotor blades (CAD); when it was translated to another system for production control (CAM), the top and bottom sections were out of alignment for a fraction of a millimetre.

The reason why Dhruv was successful so rapidly and Tejas was so slow was because Dhruv was done by the Rotary Wing section of HAL D&D, headed by the only senior board level officer who was NOT a Managing Director. He was a slave driver, and had a violent temper, and nobody willingly crossed his path, not even the Air Force officers; fortunately, they had no veto power over the Dhruv development and didn't add mirchi masala. That Director D&D later became the first Chairman of HAL to have joined as a trainee and risen to the top, at an age that gave him seven years in office. Tejas was done by a multiplicity of agencies, headed by brilliantly intelligent men who were mild, self-effacing characters in real life, and could be pushed around and bullied by intellectual light-weights, and were. The D&D man was nowhere near as brilliant as Kota, but he had drive and forceful energy that I have seldom seen elsewhere; he also had genuine human feeling, as I have personal reason to have learnt. Some day I might tell that story.

For you, I would strongly recommend build heavily on your UAVs, using the aeronautical knowledge that collaborating on the JF 17 has brought to you. Look for helicopters later.

Incidentally, there are several varieties of helicopter: utility, combined gunship and troop carrier, heavy load lifter, gunship or attack helicopter, scout, and stealth. You would be best off doing a general purpose utility and building off branches or variants from that.

 

[VCheng]

For you, I would strongly recommend build heavily on your UAVs, using the aeronautical knowledge that collaborating on the JF 17 has brought to you. Look for helicopters later.

Incidentally, there are several varieties of helicopter: utility, combined gunship and troop carrier, heavy load lifter, gunship or attack helicopter, scout, and stealth. You would be best off doing a general purpose utility and building off branches or variants from that.

How about reverse engineering to replicate something like an Alouette III, as a starting point?

 

[Bossman]

How about reverse engineering to replicate something like an Alouette III, as a starting point?

Alouette III were originally assembled in Pakistan.

 

[VCheng]

Alouette III were originally assembled in Pakistan.

Hence my suggestion.

 

[Bossman]

Hence my suggestion.

Obsolete

 

[Joe Shearer]

Dhruv was a complete failure until It got help from German MBB in its design and development as well as from the French and the Americans among others. Its basically a German design with a French engine and mostly other foreign parts.

Thank you for your magisterial view. I prefer to stick to the evidence of my own eyes and ears. If you don't mind, that is.

How about reverse engineering to replicate something like an Alouette III, as a starting point?

Why not concentrate on deepening your available know-how in the existing area of fixed wing aircraft?

 

[VCheng]

Why not concentrate on deepening your available know-how in the existing area of fixed wing aircraft?

Good point, but helicopters are crucial in certain areas of operations. Expanding into rotary wing aircraft should not stop progress in the fixed wing realm.

Obsolete

Yes, but a great starting point for further development for a new entrant.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Could be cheaper to reacquire them

 

[Bossman]

Thank you for your magisterial view. I prefer to stick to the evidence of my own eyes and ears. If you don't mind, that is.

Then you must be blind and deaf because I simply gave you the facts. Can you deny that the Dharuv was designed by MBB? Even the shape is dead give away.

 

[VCheng]

Thank you for your magisterial view. I prefer to stick to the evidence of my own eyes and ears. If you don't mind, that is.

Aren't most modern designs collaborative efforts?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Then you must be blind and deaf because I simply gave you the facts. Can you deny that the Dharuv was designed by MBB? Even the shape is dead give away.

Yes, I am blind and deaf, and all that I saw, including the drawings developed, didn't exist. Now go and squabble with Mastan Khan; I have no time for self-opinionated and self-designated experts. Don't address me again, please. I don't do doctors of the blind and deaf.

Don't give me facts of your own imagining. Give me references or give me your first-hand knowledge.

Aren't most modern designs collaborative efforts?

Almost every single one, except a few exceptional American designs, and a few exceptional Russian ones. Other than that, it is difficult to identify a single lone-wolf project.

 

[VCheng]

Almost every single one, except a few exceptional American designs, and a few exceptional Russian ones. Other than that, it is difficult to identify a single lone-wolf project.

Even within USA and Russia, newer projects are collaborations between large companies that once used to be competitors, because of the complexity and costs involved.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Even within USA and Russia, newer projects are collaborations between large companies that once used to be competitors, because of the complexity and costs involved.

The Russians have closed down some design bureaux due to the lack of work on hand.

 

[Bossman]

Yes, I am blind and deaf, and all that I saw, including the drawings developed, didn't exist. Now go and squabble with Mastan Khan; I have no time for self-opinionated and self-designated experts. Don't address me again, please. I don't do doctors of the blind and deaf.

Don't give me facts of your own imagining. Give me references or give me your first-hand knowledge.
.

Correct me if anything I said was wrong. It was designed by MBB. It was not a collaborative JV. MBB was given a turn key contract to design the helicopter. The engine is French and Avionics Israeli.