Pakistan’s missile capability

[tyrant]

Care to explain how???
India's solid rocket tech was developed from SLV-3 and its legcy traces back to Rohini sounding rocket in '60s

Indias liquid rocket tech traces back to project devil/valiant rocket motors

We have developed our own guidence system in 1980s

Yes, I care. Your whole SLV technology (barely better than Israel) is far behind Russian SLV tech. Look at the latest Russian ICBMs or SLVs (The last Soyuz launched less than a week ago.). Your best SLV is a four stage liquid based missile that finally you got after millions of try and error.
Your best achievement in liquid/solid fuel is the recent 5000 ICBM. After 20 years of experiment, this was your best. Compare it to the Russian liquid/solid ICBMs. 10000+ range, less than 17 m error, all types of crazy metal compounds to increase the efficiency of the solid fuel.

 

[kurup]

Yes, I care. Your whole SLV technology (barely better than Israel) is far behind Russian SLV tech. Look at the latest Russian ICBMs or SLVs (The last Soyuz launched less than a week ago.). Your best SLV is a four stage liquid based missile that finally you got after millions of try and error.
Your best achievement in liquid/solid fuel is the recent 5000 ICBM. After 20 years of experiment, this was your best. Compare it to the Russian liquid/solid ICBMs. 10000+ range, less than 17 m error, all types of crazy metal compounds to increase the efficiency of the solid fuel.

Every country developed their SLV and missiles after millions of try and error .

Only few had the luck to get the technology transfered from other countries .

And countries don't develop missiles on basis of what other countries have but on threat perceptions.

Our adversaries are not far away on other continents but right at our borders.

 

[DARKY]

In your wet dreams everything comes from china but practically we build every nut and bolt of missile. Prove that pakistan does not have all the necessary tools and equipment to build such balistic missiles? DARKY, it's 2012. Please convinve your readers that pakistan does not have manufacturing tools!!!!! I have read how you said we import motors from China hex name company. Making wild claims like Prasun K Gupta aint gonna help you son!


Next thing, liquid fuels are being phased out as we speak and they would mostly act as backup missiles from now on. Now SLV part, why Pakistan doesnt built it. Simple answer,, not enough money allocated to SUPARCO or else we would have seen pur own SLV!

I showed you proper proof.... with figures as to how Pakistani solid fuel missiles have identical resemblance to certain decades old Chinese solid fueled Ballistic missile.

If you know this is wrong then prove it with solid facts.... we are talking of Ballistic missiles and there are enough data available in text and pdf which points out notorious involvement of China in transferring the technology and parts to countries like Pakistan and Iran... besides assisting North Korea to do the same.

 

[AUz]

I showed you proper proof.... with figures as to how Pakistani solid fuel missiles have identical resemblance to certain decades old Chinese solid fueled Ballistic missile.

If you know this is wrong then prove it with solid facts.... we are talking of Ballistic missiles and there are enough data available in text and pdf which points out notorious involvement of China in transferring the technology and parts to countries like Pakistan and Iran... besides assisting North Korea to do the same.

My dear child....what was the last Aerospace course you took? "Resemblance" between Pakistani missiles and Chinese one's? Guess what? I can show you many "resemblance" between Russian and American missiles too... C'mon , thats why Pakistanis laugh at brainwashed indians.

Ghauri series is being phased-out as we speak. More and more solid-fueled missiles are being added to Pakistan's inventory. Remember Shaheen-1A ?

Transferring technology BS is old now. Pakistan is fully independent in its missile-building process AS WE SPEAK. Yeah , you can keep crying "Oh Pakistan got help in 1990's" Shoo sad for you....

Don't tell me indians never got training in Russia or other 'material help' from other nations ...

Unless your india is situated on Moon , you also used some other nations' knowledge to further your national programs at one point or the other...

HECK! even Americans used Russian knowledge and vice versa in Aerospace sector...opppsss...again..what is the last class you took on any Aerospace related issue?

Tid bid : Iranians have shown BETTER talents in space research than india...they started under loads of sanctions and made really quick progress...it took decades for india though...

 

[AUz]

Plus : I don't even know why we are discussing rocket tech of one shitty state to our East here... This is Pakistan's missile capability thread....

 

[TaimiKhan]

I showed you proper proof.... with figures as to how Pakistani solid fuel missiles have identical resemblance to certain decades old Chinese solid fueled Ballistic missile.

If you know this is wrong then prove it with solid facts.... we are talking of Ballistic missiles and there are enough data available in text and pdf which points out notorious involvement of China in transferring the technology and parts to countries like Pakistan and Iran... besides assisting North Korea to do the same.

Why do you need to do more research when we have a separate and much more informative thread from a very informative member regarding the origins of the missile and what they have evolved into.

Here read and learn:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-missiles-indigenous-content-development.html

 

[The Deterrent]

You see weight and range comparisons are not a correct measure as to what extent Pakistani solid fuel missiles are influenced or copied from Chinese missiles.... which we all know it is...

My friend we had a lot of discussions in the past, but I'm amazed how biased you still are...I didn't claim that Pakistani missiles are not copies of Chinese ones or are not influenced by them, they certainly are.
If weight and range are not a correct measure, I'm curious what else is? Because weight and range determine the physical parameters and performance of a missile, right?

The figures which I posted were quoted by the "authentic" sources (FAS, MissileThreat, GlobalSecurity), just so you know.

Chinese DF-11 & Pakistani Ghaznavi

Pictures are not visible. However, I agree that Ghaznavi is very much a locally produced DF-11. But, with a local guidance system.

Chinese DF-11A & Shaheen I

Chinese M-18 missile & Shaheen 2


All blown up Chinese missile... even the motor used is from China Hexi Chemical & Mechanical Company Solid motors for first stages are L-SpaB.
For Shaheen-2 the engine is L-SpaB-140B with 1.40 m in diameter and a length of 7.15 m.
For the second stage there is a shorter solid motor SpaB-140.

Now let me quote the original source of this information here:

The striking similarity of some Chinese and Pakistani solid fuel rockets

This information is very detailed, and a very accurate analysis has been done to some extent. I myself have been following this link for a long time. However, the author made some foolish mistakes too.

So here it is:

It can not be denied, that the Pakistani solid fuel rockets Ghaznavi and Shaheen-1 are similar to the Chinese DF-11 missile type.

Yes, they are.

On photos is recognizable, that the Chinese DF-11 and DF-11A by set of some solid fuel segments are built.The DF-11 uses two segments. For the DF-11A is a third segment added.
For the Pakistani Shaheen-1 is a further half segment added. All rocket types have the same diameter of 0.88 m. The Shaheen-1 have however a striking extended skirt in the nozzle area, because the missile has another control system and a larger nozzle.

So clearly, Pakistan added another half segment of the solid fuel for its Shaheen-I. That is why its range is 700km, greater than DF-11A's 500km.
Now if Shaheen-I has another (Martian?) control system and a larger nozzle, I wonder why the Chinese didn't made these improvements to their own missile systems.

On photos is clearly recognizable, that also the Chinese DF-15 and DF-15A by set of several short solid fuel segments are built. Four segments uses the DF-15, and the extended DF-15A uses five segments. All rockets have a diameter of ~1.10 m. The DF-15 missile type is obviously not exported.

So DF-15 has no say in this matter, agreed?

Unknown are the Chinese rocket variants M-9 and M-18. They are referred as export variants. So is suspected that the Pakistani Shaheen-1 corresponds to the M-9. The M-18 probably corresponds to the Pakistani Shaheen-2.

Unknown...suspected...probably...not sure, eh?

The Chinese M-18 was allegedly shown at the 1987 Beijing air show. Now I have found Photos of the M-18 missile ! (see below)

Here he made the blunder. The so-called M-18 being shown here, is the same Pakistani Shaheen-II, aboard a transport vehicle. The missile TEL and Transport vehicle were displayed in 23rd March "Pakistan Day Parade" in 2007 (not sure about the year), moving in tandem. The author portrayed the missile right behind (same time, same place) as M-18, just because the parade was being reported on a Chinese Television too.

The Shaheen-2 is totally different to the DF-11 and DF-15 missile types. The diameter is significantly 1.40 m. China Hexi Chemical & Mechanical Company presents solid motors for first stages with the name L-SpaB. Very capable for the Shaheen-2 is an engine L-SpaB-140B with 1.40 m in diameter and a length of 7.15 m. For the second stage is a shorter solid motor SpaB-140 capable.

How exactly did the author get a look of Shaheen-II's solid-fuel motors? Shaheen-II uses the same motors, just because he found some Chinese rocket motors with somewhat similar dimensions?

The Domestic industry of Pakistan is incapable of manufacturing such motors... and they are imported from the Chinese firm China Hexi Chemical & Mechanical Company

My friend, you have little idea about Pakistan's domestic industry in this regard. Just because strict secrecy shrouds the program, it is not good to make unprovable claims. Pakistan will go for anything that meets its requirements. If we didn't introduce an all-composite version of Shaheen-II, thats because Pakistan didn't need one.

Ghaznavi and Shaheen-I (version 1 and version 2) are old stories now. All that happened in late 1990s. Pakistan has come a long way now and has gained enough experience with solid-fuel motors. The missile designs are going to be similar, optimum designs. In this decade, Pakistan will move towards more conventional usage of missiles. In a few years, more sophisticated delivery platforms will be introduced. I'm sure you will still find some "originals" of those missiles.

All the technical terms used by DRDO in public releases are also used here too, its just that the information is not for the public.

I request all members to stick to the topic i.e. ONLY Pakistan's missile technology. If any Pakistani member wishes to bash Indian achievements, kindly do so in the respective thread. I would advise to kindly do some research on Indian missiles before massively undermining them.