Pakistan rumored to be interested in additional RJAF F-16s

[araz]

On to the main issue then: Pakistan can always get whatever it wants, including F16s, or anything else, Just as everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others, as you said, serving national interests is the best way to achieve something, as always is true in international geopolitics.

as long as it can be shown that there is an alignment of national interests that can be served best by such support.
Shah jee.
This remains the bug bear and the crux of all international relationships. Pakistan has lacked tbe vision and foresight to see this and get major benefits from it while being a US partner. Our major policy failure has been to utilize-the opportunities provided into a successful mutually beneficial relationship. Part of the problem has been that US arms provide the biggest bang for the buck.
65 was a perfect picture of our failure to understand the dynamics of what this relationship involved. Our elite relied instead on getting shortsighted short term benefits for themselves out of it. Whether it was the latter factor whichmired the whole equation needs to be understood and possibly acknowledged.
Time and again we have seen how shortlived this relationship has been as rightly pointed out it has been a transactional one. However, how did we plead our case? What could we have gotten out of this relationship without ruffling any feathers that we did not.
The US has done what it does best ---look after its interests. BUT WHAT HAVE WE DONE? Any further discourse will require an answer to this question.

 

[Sinnerman108]

as long as it can be shown that there is an alignment of national interests that can be served best by such support.
Shah jee.
This remains the bug bear and the crux of all international relationships. Pakistan has lacked tbe vision and foresight to see this and get major benefits from it while being a US partner. Our major policy failure has been to utilize-the opportunities provided into a successful mutually beneficial relationship. Part of the problem has been that US arms provide the biggest bang for the buck.
65 was a perfect picture of our failure to understand the dynamics of what this relationship involved. Our elite relied instead on getting shortsighted short term benefits for themselves out of it. Whether it was the latter factor whichmired the whole equation needs to be understood and possibly acknowledged.
Time and again we have seen how shortlived this relationship has been as rightly pointed out it has been a transactional one. However, how did we plead our case? What could we have gotten out of this relationship without ruffling any feathers that we did not.
The US has done what it does best ---look after its interests. BUT WHAT HAVE WE DONE? Any further discourse will require an answer to this question.

the primary reason for that was the people managing that relationship had neither the vision, nor the capability or maturity.
PS: the same people and their lack of vision is one more time screwing us.

 

[Trailer23]

Bhai.
Iam happy to have this discourse with you. However it is beyond the scope of this thread. Please open a thread on US external relationships and I will be happy to contribute. You do have valid points but need an explanation on international relationships and how to see them.
A

Doc sahab,
Any chance we can convince you to the position of Foreign Minister.

I sense we'll have a better Foreign Policy with you at the helm and a better chance of getting what is needed - not just Vipers with V-upgrades.

Regards,
-T23

 

[TNT]

why are you still in amreeka? or are you just another feku false flagger fancying himself as a 5th gen warrior like Nasr? https://defence.pk/pdf/posts/13799965

---

LeGenD why don't you people prevent people using wrong location flags? are you all in cahoots?

looking at your posts you look genuine so perhaps it is something else that prevents you from doing certain things that need doing (and would be done on a genuine forum as opposed to a propaganda website).

So according to ur logic he should be pro west because he lives/lived in west? Is that the reason u r a western chamcha and have ukranian flag on dp?

 

[Vapnope]

Then it is for Pakistan to decide how not to be a liability but an asset according to its own national interests.

Entirely different debate. My point was in contention to what you said and i stand by my earlier comment that even if we put money in hard cash, we aren't going to get new F16 blk 70/72 because this isn't simply about money.

 

[VCheng]

The US has done what it does best ---look after its interests. BUT WHAT HAVE WE DONE? Any further discourse will require an answer to this question.

We can take this up in another thread and not here, unless you wish to continue here.

Every nation has only itself to hold responsible for pursuing, or not, its own national interests, that is for sure.

Entirely different debate. My point was in contention to what you said and i stand by my earlier comment that even if we put money in hard cash, we aren't going to get new F16 blk 70/72 because this isn't simply about money.

What you state above is a mere hypothetical personal opinion.

 

[EternalMortal]

What you state above is a mere hypothetical personal opinion.

Ok, but it still has more evidence than your hypothetical personal opinion.

Tell me, have they approved engines for ATAK then? They've approved it for both Philippines & Nigeria. If it's just about money then what's the issue?

But of course you'll point to them approving navy engines. Sure, but that's b/c it's the navy. Compared to India, ours has fallen quite behind so approving it here doesn't change the power balance too much & helps keep india in check.

Army is a different story which is why they've refused it here. It should be the same with airforce. Outside maintenance it's unlikely that they're going to give us any major upgrade UNLESS india makes big strides.

Essentially, they don't want us strong enough to actually be able to threaten India (& distract it from china) but still strong enough to keep it in check if required.

 

[VCheng]

Tell me, have they approved engines for ATAK then? They've approved it for both Philippines & Nigeria. If it's just about money then what's the issue?

Has Pakistan offered any money to sweeten the pot enough? Or something else that would be more useful to the other side?

 

[araz]

Doc sahab,
Any chance we can convince you to the position of Foreign Minister.

I sense we'll have a better Foreign Policy with you at the helm and a better chance of getting what is needed - not just Vipers with V-upgrades.

Regards,
-T23

Bhai.
At the moment the most likely for me might be a visit from the Vigo and being cavity violated , and I dont have the appetite for neither. I have tried to contribute where I can, on topics where I have some understanding in the hope that some day someone will understand. My reward lies with my maker so please pray that he accepts it. Ameen.
Off topic. My father once met Jam Sadiq after many years. Jam Sadiq in his usual valour met him with great respect and said "Sain aap to aatay he nahi ho. Kabhi hamain khidmat ka mauqa do". My father's response was "Sain aap ab bohat baray aadmi ban gaye ho, mairay jaisay chotay aadmi ko aap say milney se khauf aata hai" .Later on I asked my father why he never went to Jam Sadiq, Mir Rasool Bux, or his many acquaintances including Ghulam Mustafa Jatoi and he said something which was very poignant "Because they will gladly do me any favour I ask. But they will then own me and expect me to do ten wrong things for them, which I will never do". I have taken my father's philosophy to heart.
Wassalam
A

We can take this up in another thread and not here, unless you wish to continue here.

Every nation has only itself to hold responsible for pursuing, or not, its own national interests, that is for sure.



What you state above is a mere hypothetical personal opinion.

Shah Jee you know my thoughts on the matter very well. It is a painful experience to re-explore the travesty and the land of wasted opportunities which we call Pakistan.Perhaps some other day on another thread might be better
A

 

[Conqueror]

Although we pray it would conclude, given how the Pakistan Army is handling the situation, America is probably going to withdraw its "favours." If Imran Khan returns to power, America will try to punish Pakistan, which could hurt not only this deal but also any other agreements that are currently in place.

The relationship between Pakistan and the United States will likely become even more rocky in the future. We are grateful to the Pakistani Army for their superior organisation.

 

[Khan vilatey]

In recent days multiple sources are suggesting the US has no issues with Pakistan purchasing used F16s from Jordan or other friendly countries.

https://www.facebook.com/ACEofPAF/photos/a.710972692343361/5490818901025359

https://twitter.com/x/status/1584830002197327875

Lol, the world pays Pakistan with its taxpayer money to stop Indian terrorism

K

What about Iraqi F-16’s or Egypt’s Block 52’s?

Those cannot fire long range air to air munitions

 

[MIRauf]

Those cannot fire long range air to air munitions

Software setting, just need code upgrade.

 

[araz]

Although we pray it would conclude, given how the Pakistan Army is handling the situation, America is probably going to withdraw its "favours." If Imran Khan returns to power, America will try to punish Pakistan, which could hurt not only this deal but also any other agreements that are currently in place.

The relationship between Pakistan and the United States will likely become even more rocky in the future. We are grateful to the Pakistani Army for their superior organisation.

Things may not be as black and white as this. The US will want to appease the New IK government. How they do and what the demands of the Pak government will be remains to be seen.

 

[VCheng]

Things may not be as black and white as this. The US will want to appease the New IK government. How they do and what the demands of the Pak government will be remains to be seen.

There is a new IK government already? Why would USA want to appease it and why should that appeasement, if followed, include more F16s?

 

[araz]

There is a new IK government already? Why would USA want to appease it and why should that appeasement, if followed, include more F16s?

Where did I say the appeasement will include F16s. I think the needs of the army and the needs of the new Government need to be looked into.
A