Pakistan recieved its second Saab Erieye AWAC

[ejaz007]

Thanks but I was hoping for a detailed response from someone who would like to explain what different objectives/scenarios are we looking at for the two AWACS.

Any reasons why its mounted on a propeller driven aircraft and not a jet one?
(maybe it doesnt have aerial refulling capability and hence propeller driven, not sure though)

Also why not the disc shape of radar. This shape only gives 300 degrees cover.

There is another thread related to PAF AWACS. Kindly go through that thread and you should have detailed answer to the question raised.

 

[MZUBAIR]

MZUBAIR,
I think you're being too optimistic. The range of Erieye may be 450 km but that doesn't mean it will detect every aircraft at that range. 450 km is the maximum instrumentation range, while the detection range for a 5m2 rcs plane is 350km.

I agree, but that is the minimum range not maximum....
So, with minimum 350 KM range it can be tracked.....and wts max...we dont know...
Similarly minimum dection range is 450KM and wts max......no one knows.....

For every aircraft there is a different range of detection. Smaller aircraft like LCA and Mirage 2000 will only be detected at 225-300 km something and the PakFa kind of planes won't be detected till the plane gets in 100 km range of the AWACS.

But I dont agree with PakFa, coz its specifications are still in requirements ........and it nedds maturity. In the World Wide WEb, there is no source available that describes its document and implemented design specifications.

So far there is no news abt its stealth capability of detection.
And one thing more there is no AC in the world completely stealth not even F-22 or F-35.

Read this

"The Saab 2000 ERIEYE AEW&C utilises the latest generation ERIEYE radar, now capable of detecting small air targets, hovering helicopters, cruise missiles and small sea targets such as inflatable rubber boats, for a more complete surveillance picture.
"
Source:- SAAB GRoup , SAAB 2000 Official website

This stand true for every radar in the world, no matter what its origin.

Also Erieye can monitor just one section at a time ie only 150 degrees at 350 km. But since India-Pak border is pretty straight that wouldn't be a disadvantage to you.

Thanks, You have posted this source Source Yoiu posted :-Erieye Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircraft - Air Force Technology

And in that source, I read one thing which negates your statement.

The ERIEYE is capable of 360° detection and tracking of air and sea targets over the horizon. The instrumented range is 450km and a typical detection range against a fighter aircraft size target is in excess of 350km.


From Weki

"Typical detection range against fighter-sized targets is approximately 425 km, in a 150° broadside sector, both sides of the aircraft."




So, its not right to say that it detects from one side.

And you have to protect your plane too. So you've got to keep it at least 100 kms inside your border.

These pages should help you

Situation Awareness
EMB-145 Erieye Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircraft - Air Force Technology

I think PAF needs at least 6-7 AWACS on eastern border to keep Indians on their toes.

Yes PAF going to have total 4 of these and one for training.
Two Erieye will be extra (not sure about thhis news)
PAF ordered 4 Shaanxi Y-8F600 (With advance technologies acc to PAF requirements), which are coming in 2011

And dont foget its AESA radar

 

[MZUBAIR]

I did.

No, u didnt

 

[MZUBAIR]

why not 737 or a-310 i think 747 is very big and heavy cost

PIA have 737 or a-310, Y not few of domsestic Airjets modified with these kind of radars. Pakistan Aviation unit can also support that.

In this way, we would be having 24 hours air protection from all sides of the country.

Just a suggestion....(Dont know abt the cost)

 

[MZUBAIR]

i red it somewhere that saab erieye can also identify the type of aircraft and the weapon system they r equiped with.

Yes, I also heard that...
And I read that (asure u) that SAAB 2000 can dedect the AC, either its frined or not from more then 300 KM

 

[FlyingEagle]

Congrats PAF and PDF

Regards,
FE

 

[Mani2020]

PIA have 737 or a-310, Y not few of domsestic Airjets modified with these kind of radars. Pakistan Aviation unit can also support that.

In this way, we would be having 24 hours air protection from all sides of the country.

Just a suggestion....(Dont know abt the cost)

I think maintenance would be the biggest issue then, as they are jet powered and much bigger aircrafts as compared to Saab-2000, secondly the A-310 in Paf service is used for President and Prime minister Transportation purpose

 

[satishkumarcsc]

As told above, JF-17 has western compatible data link system, which can work with any western platform. So JF-17s and F-16s will work together fine and so with Erieye system.

Sir can you tell me what datalinking system will be used in the JF 17?...I searched the net for a credibile datalink systems on the JF but couldnt find any sort of something like the Link 16 on it. Can you please help me out in this?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Sir can you tell me what datalinking system will be used in the JF 17?...I searched the net for a credibile datalink systems on the JF but couldnt find any sort of something like the Link 16 on it. Can you please help me out in this?

Well the data link origin and specifications have been kept secret for now.

Go to page 3, post# 33, there you can see the similarity between the communication antennas between JF-17 and Turkish upgraded F-5s which also has data link capability. The antennas are of same shape and thus may be both are from the same origin, Turkish F-5s data link equipment is of unknown origin and not known, while same for JF-17. But they same from the same origin, and most probably as per a logo seen on one of the JF-17 antenna, it may be of South African origin.

For difference, check the antennas placed on the Chinese FC-1 prototype# 06, and compare it to JF-17, you will know the difference. And also PAF Mirage upgraded to ROSE standard and overhauled F-7s are also carrying the same shaped antennas, even PAF C-130s have been seen with these antennas, thus PAF is getting a standard communication equipment installed on all its aircraft, and data linking would be there where required.

See the antennas on this FC-1 Prototype#06

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_htvjsmtPr...qsr-Fx34JA/s1600/FC_1_06_1245595884_18204.jpg

 

[MZUBAIR]

Sir can you tell me what datalinking system will be used in the JF 17?...I searched the net for a credibile datalink systems on the JF but couldnt find any sort of something like the Link 16 on it. Can you please help me out in this?

There are many things kept secret its one of them.

 

[jagjitnatt]

I agree, but that is the minimum range not maximum....
So, with minimum 350 KM range it can be tracked.....and wts max...we dont know...
Similarly minimum dection range is 450KM and wts max......no one knows.....

That is again being over optimistic. These are not minimum ranges. They are the max ranges. No equipment in the world specifies its min range rather its max. Its the first law of marketing.

But I dont agree with PakFa, coz its specifications are still in requirements ........and it nedds maturity. In the World Wide WEb, there is no source available that describes its document and implemented design specifications.

So far there is no news abt its stealth capability of detection.
And one thing more there is no AC in the world completely stealth not even F-22 or F-35.

Read this

"The Saab 2000 ERIEYE AEW&C utilises the latest generation ERIEYE radar, now capable of detecting small air targets, hovering helicopters, cruise missiles and small sea targets such as inflatable rubber boats, for a more complete surveillance picture.
"
Source:- SAAB GRoup , SAAB 2000 Official website

Correct about the part that says that no aircraft is invisible to the radar. That is exactly what I said. Every aircraft can be detected but the range is what varies according to its rcs. And the minimum rcs for a stealth aircraft is 0.01 or below. Anything above it can not be called a true 5th gen fighter. PakFa is a 5th gen fighter which leads me to believe its rcs would be somewhere around this mark. With an rcs like this, Erieye can not detect it at range above 100 km.

Thanks, You have posted this source Source Yoiu posted :-Erieye Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircraft - Air Force Technology

And in that source, I read one thing which negates your statement.

The ERIEYE is capable of 360° detection and tracking of air and sea targets over the horizon. The instrumented range is 450km and a typical detection range against a fighter aircraft size target is in excess of 350km.


From Weki

"Typical detection range against fighter-sized targets is approximately 425 km, in a 150° broadside sector, both sides of the aircraft."




So, its not right to say that it detects from one side.



Yes PAF going to have total 4 of these and one for training.
Two Erieye will be extra (not sure about thhis news)
PAF ordered 4 Shaanxi Y-8F600 (With advance technologies acc to PAF requirements), which are coming in 2011

And dont foget its AESA radar

Actually if you go into the detail tech specs of Erieye you would realize that actually Erieye can provide 360 degree coverage but the 30 degrees in front and 30 degrees at the back provide very less coverage.

The main scan range of the radar is only 300 degrees, 150 degree on both sides.

The performance of a phased array radar decreases with the increase in angle of detection. So in order to get the max range Erieye needs to reduce the angle of scan.

Check this post.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...tan-awacs-aew-cs-aircrafts-34.html#post322255

Should help you.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

PIA have 737 or a-310, Y not few of domsestic Airjets modified with these kind of radars. Pakistan Aviation unit can also support that.

In this way, we would be having 24 hours air protection from all sides of the country.

Just a suggestion....(Dont know abt the cost)

And what will PIA fly?..Wont their business be affected?...How are they supposed to transport passengers?

 

[jagjitnatt]

And what will PIA fly?..Wont their business be affected?...How are they supposed to transport passengers?

on the roof..
jokin. don't start asking me for links for this too.

 

[Imran Khan]

And what will PIA fly?..Wont their business be affected?...How are they supposed to transport passengers?

no problim they already loss us too much . for your info PIA parked these 2 boing 747 in sialkot air port for heavy cost of oil prises.

 

[SaleemKhan]

Good news. Insha Allah our airforce will become more stronger now.