Pakistan Rangers taunt ‘hungry’ BSF jawans

[Peshwa]

I saw former Soldiers on TV saying that the sabzi shown in the video was too much spicy and oily- and they said It is normal for soldiers on High altitude deployment to get light food rations- BSF too said the same thing- in the cant areas on plains the are as usual served lots of oily and spicy food like panner masla and Chicken tikka on a daily Basis-

Probably true. Ill have to take your word for it.

Lokpal and other pals Just add another system- Which gets corrupt with time and do nothing more than becoming another problem and burden on the revenue- sometimes there are a dozen to see whats wrong and not a single one to do whats is to be done- these additional legislative burdens have already created several red tapes slowing the process and adding more will bring it to halt-

So how do we root our corruption then my friend? What can we change in the current system when everyone from the constable on the street to the street cleaner to the municipal commissioner are corrupt?
I'm all ears.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

But isn't the bone of contention here that the C.Os themselves are sanctioning this skim from the top?
So how is this solving the issue?

This maybe a poor example, but its like allowing the thief to be the judge in his own trial.

Now that they are under greater scrutiny ; they will get their act together

After the battalion CO ; the Brigade Commander and the Divisional CO
all can be tasked with this responsibility

Now things will be much better ; the power of social media and the smart phone
has helped

 

[Peshwa]

Now that they are under greater scrutiny ; they will get their act together

After the battalion CO ; the Brigade Commander and the Divisional CO
all can be tasked with this responsibility

Now things will be much better ; the power of social media and the smart phone
has helped

I'm optimistic but also skeptical. Lets hope what you say is true and things improve.

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

So how do we root our corruption then my friend? What can we change in the current system when everyone from the constable on the street to the street cleaner to the municipal commissioner are corrupt?
I'm all ears.

This corruption comes from the society itself- We should always try to focus on our society- No matter how many parallel system you create the people from the society will make It it corrupt-

 

[Peshwa]

This corruption comes from the society itself- We should always try to focus on our society- No matter how many parallel system you create the people from the society will make It it corrupt-

Dear friend, I think you're trying to solve the Chicken and Egg conundrum.
We will be chasing our tails for eternity. We need a shot in the arm and we needed it like yesterday!

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

So how do we root our corruption then my friend? What can we change in the current system when everyone from the constable on the street to the street cleaner to the municipal commissioner are corrupt?
I'm all ears.

Simplest form of anti-corruption tactic is transparency and optionality.

Remember in early 90s and early 2000s, there used to be huge hoarding of railway tickets and middle-men used to charge their cut for getting reservation in trains? What now? That all has gone mostly due to irctc.co.in. Heck you can book a ticket before 1 hour to board a train.

Remember in 90s when you needed to have a 'source' and bribe people to get a phone connection or a gas connection? What happens now? Again it is all gone. You can get phone and gas connection in just 10-20 minutes and you have a choice of providers.

Same with Passport. Remember in early 2000s even the passport forms used to run out of supply because travel agents used to hoard it? No more now! It is all online and you pay exactly what you need to pay. Also even police is afraid to keep your file suspended for more than 3-4 weeks. You can even find where it is stuck and visit the place to get it moving.

If electricity distribution is opened for more than one companies you will see the corruption disappearing from there too. More than one provider for electricity. Some with modern under-ground cables.

 

[Peshwa]

Simplest form of anti-corruption tactic is transparency and optionality.

Remember in early 90s and early 2000s, there used to be huge hoarding of railway tickets and middle-men used to charge their cut for getting reservation in trains? What now? That all has gone mostly due to irctc.co.in. Heck you can book a ticket before 1 hour to board a train.

Remember in 90s when you needed to have a 'source' and bribe people to get a phone connection or a gas connection? What happens now? Again it is all gone. You can get phone and gas connection in just 10-20 minutes and you have a choice of providers.

Same with Passport. Remember in early 2000s even the passport forms used to run out of supply because travel agents used to hoard it? No more now! It is all online and you pay exactly what you need to pay. Also even police is afraid to keep your file suspended for more than 3-4 weeks. You can even find where it is stuck and visit the place to get it moving.

If electricity distribution is opened for more than one companies you will see the corruption disappearing from there too. More than one provider for electricity. Some with modern under-ground cables.

Correct. Because the internet services provided checks and balances to these problems.

But how do you stop corruption in the army where sanctioned ration is being skimmed off the top by corrupt officers? By giving power to other armed forces officers who may themselves be a party to the problem or to a neutral civilan body?
Unless we can change the procurement and supply chain problem and make it more accountable, we cant root out this problem. If the change is to make the process more electronic, I am all ears. But these beureaucrats have found a way through that as well.

let me give you an example of what I faced recently.
Buying govt. land for industry. The form to be filled out is online. The form doesn't upload in repeated attempts. One goes to the officer in charge and complains about this. Guess what the answer was?
"Form kaise upload hoga sir, uske liye paise lagte hain"
5 Lakhs bribe for that piece of shit! This after paying up promptly for the land itself.

The problem for us is deep rooted my friend. We as Indians need to think outside the box.

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

Correct. Because the internet services provided checks and balances to these problems.

But how do you stop corruption in the army where sanctioned ration is being skimmed off the top by corrupt officers? By giving power to other armed forces officers who may themselves be a party to the problem or to a neutral civilan body?
Unless we can change the procurement and supply chain problem and make it more accountable, we cant root out this problem. If the change is to make the process more electronic, I am all ears. But these beureaucrats have found a way through that as well.

let me give you an example of what I faced recently.
Buying govt. land for industry. The form to be filled out is online. The form doesn't upload in repeated attempts. One goes to the officer in charge and complains about this. Guess what the answer was?
"Form kaise upload hoga sir, uske liye paise lagte hain"
5 Lakhs bribe for that piece of shit! This after paying up promptly for the land itself.

The problem for us is deep rooted my friend. We as Indians need to think outside the box.

Rome was not built in a day sir-jee!

As far as procurement of material for army goes, especially food items etc, simplest way could be to allow multiple vendors to provide packaged food to army; especially in remote locations; and let army-men choose the vendor they like the most, or atleast give a choice of negative voting. Having just one ASC providing all the food supply will lead to this situation. Transportation can still be left to army. If a particular sector goes with a vendor, possibly by voting, they will get business. If they do not provide good food, well, vendor will be kicked out.

On that land acquisition front, did you try filing a RTI about why form is not uploading or why system is broken?
I guess in India we need couple of providers for these services each independent. Like it was for Delhi housing lottery. Each bank was responsible for providing website etc for lottery entry. If one bank is not working go to other. We need something similar. Let this entire 'IT' infra be run by a number of vendors each charging a fixed pre-determined rate. Problem is that these services are provided by National Informatics Centre. 'nic.in'. And they do not have training or inclination to run the services.

 

[maximuswarrior]

What a nasty obsessive country India is. I'm so glad we seperate from this obsessive nation. Fabricating the most stupid things.

 

[Peshwa]

Rome was not built in a day sir-jee!

As far as procurement of material for army goes, especially food items etc, simplest way could be to allow multiple vendors to provide packaged food to army; especially in remote locations; and let army-men choose the vendor they like the most, or atleast give a choice of negative voting. Having just one ASC providing all the food supply will lead to this situation. Transportation can still be left to army. If a particular sector goes with a vendor, possibly by voting, they will get business. If they do not provide good food, well, vendor will be kicked out.

Well Said! Possibly one way to deal with it. Though I can poke holes here, I think your mind is in the right place.

On that land acquisition front, did you try filing a RTI about why form is not uploading or why system is broken?
I guess in India we need couple of providers for these services each independent. Like it was for Delhi housing lottery. Each bank was responsible for providing website etc for lottery entry. If one bank is not working go to other. We need something similar. Let this entire 'IT' infra be run by a number of vendors each charging a fixed pre-determined rate. Problem is that these services are provided by National Informatics Centre. 'nic.in'. And they do not have training or inclination to run the services.

I will say that it is my fault for sanctioning the bribe and not filing an RTI.
But I am a businessman living abroad and to me, the cost of time and delay is way more than 5 lakh. So yes, for me its much easier to pay off than seek justice. In a way I am part of the problem, but just wanted to give you an example of how loopholes in checks and balances are being exploited.
For me it may be a minor inconvenience, but imagine what the bloody common man must face!

 

[schoolboy]

One thing is certain. This is a management issue for India and I'm glad that it came to the forefront. Such corruption and mistreatment of soldiers needs to be dealt with immediately. And if such news lights a fire under the asses of those that allow such negligence to slip under the radar, then its worth the shame we have to face with such news.

I could not agree more. At times like this I am happy that even at the cost of sensationalising the news (perhaps even embellishing it a bit) our TRP happy media has done a service by publicising something that would otherwise be hard to know.

But isn't the bone of contention here that the C.Os themselves are sanctioning this skim from the top?

More than watchdogs or judges I believe the mentality / culture of the army and police has to change. We still follow the colonial mindset in both these (very colonial) institutions and this has resulted in institutionalisation of a culture that:
- is arrogant and believes itself above the law and other citizens (though thankfully less so than in Pakistan)
- tolerates no dissent or discussion on existing structures or processes
- views acknowledging a problem as a sign of weakness
- still wedded to the notion that superiority in rank equals absolute control
- demands had-to-monitor perks like CSD, discounts, reservations, etc. instead of professional pay
- expects unconditional support from citizens merely because they perform a law and order / defense role (i.e. opposition is equated with lack of patriotism)

In India - my home country once - the few occasions that I had to go to a police thana I felt like some second class citizen, entirely at the mercy of these Group C and D grade goons (ASIs, SIs, havildars, constables) who strut about as if the country is their fiefdom and they are doing me a favour - whereas it's my taxes that pays for their salaries and uniforms. The more senior cops - the SPs, DIGs, IGs etc. set the norms for behaviour by breaking traffic laws in their vehicles, bypassing queues, throwing a hissy fit if asked to follow procedure, and have their day made by watching their flunkies salute them as they jump a traffic light. Sheesh!

I marvel at the way the US has not fallen prey to these traps n their military / police structures (though they have a few other problems). Police here are generally a lot more careful in overstepping boundaries. Neither they nor military think they are above the law - and people are constantly identifying shortcomings and willing to adapt / modify existing processes to make a better org. In the US, I'm clearly an immigrant, have fewer constitutional rights but the one time I went to a Precinct station house, it felt like a full time service industry where my well-being was the highest priority. Amazing.

This is no different than the Pakistani politicians and army men skimming from the top in deals. But when the intention is to just ridicule rather than look pragmatically at a situation, you cant expect much else than the reactions here.

Indeed. The flip side of this can be seen in Pakistan where the blind faith and fanatical love for the military (judged by the posts here on PDF and comments I see on Dawn) results in the army having the very best of everything - at the cost of ordinary citizens who foot the bill - though I am not sure how much of that largess trickles down to the ranks.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

For a dollar a day, you can feed bharti savages. All it takes is a dollar a day to supply an Indian soldier with a meal. Please donate today.

 

[Peshwa]

More than watchdogs or judges I believe the mentality / culture of the army and police has to change. We still follow the colonial mindset in both these (very colonial) institutions and this has resulted in institutionalisation of a culture that:
- is arrogant and believes itself above the law and other citizens (though thankfully less so than in Pakistan)
- tolerates no dissent or discussion on existing structures or processes
- views acknowledging a problem as a sign of weakness
- still wedded to the notion that superiority in rank equals absolute control
- demands had-to-monitor perks like CSD, discounts, reservations, etc. instead of professional pay
- expects unconditional support from citizens merely because they perform a law and order / defense role (i.e. opposition is equated with lack of patriotism)

I marvel at the way the US has not fallen prey to these traps n their military / police structures (though they have a few other problems). Police here are generally a lot more careful in overstepping boundaries. Neither they nor military think they are above the law - and people are constantly identifying shortcomings and willing to adapt / modify existing processes to make a better org.

.

You deserve a positive rating for this!
I could not have verbalized this any better! You just hit the bullseye!

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Apparently looks like another cooked up bullshit made by Indian media just to embarrass their own soldiers.

 

[Malik Usman]

That is said reality, that India has more poor in country than the Whole Africa....