Pakistan protests India glacier tourism plan

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

My apologies then.

I lost track of the context that the phrase "Islamic freedom fighters wanting liberation" provided to your posts. It got lost in the haze of "Pakhtoonistan" etc., while I was quickly skimming posts, and the glow from Jana's picture.

Thank you for clarifying your position, and I completely agree with you on that point. I think it was the "United Islamic State of Afghanistan" that was a very interesting read, and made a similar point.

The "India disintegrating into a 100 pieces" isn't a forecast, I was only comparing the rationale of an argument that is based on "given enough time". Given enough time anything can happen - or not.

 

[dabong1]

dabong,

Points raised too adolescent for worthwhile reply.

lol......thats what all indians say when you squash there silly arguments into the ground.

It must be hard proving yourself to your fellow indians,being a muslim.
Thats probably the reason why your a bigger cheerleader of india then your hindu countrymen.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I hope you saw my comment on that post.

And the poster has personal experience and therefore appears authentic!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

lol......thats what all indians say when you squash there silly arguments into the ground.

It must be hard proving yourself to your fellow indians,being a muslim.
Thats probably the reason why your a bigger cheerleader of india then your hindu countrymen.

I have to prove nothing to anyone.

I am what I am.

I do not believe in organised religion since it has been hijacked by men and men who lust for power in the name of piety and goodness, when in actuality spread hatred and distrust.

See how the Muallhmen have hijacked Islam in the name of AQ and Taliban and they are killing Moslems while claiming to be the vanguard of Islam! Is that religion?

Sunnis kill Shias and vice versa, Hindus kill Moslems and vice versa, Christains kill Moslems and vice versa and yet all religion claims that it is a religion of peace! Are they? Yes, religion is, but those who interpret it as the custodians and proclaim from the rooftops are not!


In my opinion religion has caused so much of hatred, mayhem and distrust. It is not because religion is bad. It is because practitioners of religion want to convert it into a platform to subjugate others! That is not religion.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

On the issue of religion and being a human being first, the following from the Merchant of Venice resounds everytime I observe irrational religious hatred:

I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer, as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die?

Let's first be human beings.

I am sure that is a difficult thing to achieve!

Religion, religion, religion is all I hear and see.

Hardly anything to suggest that we are first human beings. How are you any way less than me or I less than you?

Don't we have hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer? If you prick us, do we not bleed? if you tickle us, do we not laugh? if you poison us, do we not die? And does the same not apply to you?

Think that over!

Remember "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones."

So, try to be a good human being!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^^^ Cheers, Amen, and Hallelujahs to that.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

AM

Thank you.

I honestly and sincerely believe in it.

And when I see posts with hatred and poking fun at the Indo Pak CBMs (this will take time, but one day it will be true and we will look fools then to have fought!), I take a deep breath and remember:

“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

Yet, at times I am misunderstood!

But I can live with it.

Peace is what I seek.

I have seen enough of life and hatred and wars. I find them useless to mankind.

 

[Mustapha]

Salaams,


After pondering your Query...Salim... you are absolutey right!

Why should there be nationalism...?

Yes I agree Pakistan and Saudi Arabia should be united, but then why stop there... All the Islamic countries should be united! All the way from Morroco to Indonesia, to all the way North to Bosnia/ Kazakhstan & and the way South to Tanzania or Zanzibar.

Thats a Grand Idea! Inshallah & hopefully that will be done...

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Salaams,


After pondering your Query...Salim... you are absolutey right!

Why should there be nationalism...?

Yes I agree Pakistan and Saudi Arabia should be united, but then why stop there... All the Islamic countries should be united! All the way from Morroco to Indonesia, to all the way North to Bosnia/ Kazakhstan & and the way South to Tanzania or Zanzibar.

Thats a Grand Idea! Inshallah & hopefully that will be done...

Brilliant idea!

Surprising why it has not been done from the time Islam was instituted!

Stupid chaps who were there before us, right?

Could be that they were better than us wherein they believed in:

“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

Indeed if religion was the be all and end all of piety and religion, then why this historical issue of Sunni and Shias? After all, both believe in Allah, right? Yet the problem is temporal and not spiritual. Like it or not, human beings are created with a unique characteristic called ambition and to be better than the next. Religion is yet to temper this craving to be better.

Seen the threads here? It is all about who is better. India or Pakistan?! Little that the folks here realise they are pulling each other down into the pail like crabs! But then that is what is human beings is all about! Ambition to be the best. I am sure you are not the one to be second best; if you were, you would not reply to my post. But you replied so that you want to be one on top! That is life and it is beyond religion! I don't grudge your ambition to best me! It is natural!

Since you are such a pious chap who wants the ummah, trying stopping the sectarian violence in Islam and then come back to debate! It will never come to pass!

I prefer to debate on facts and not in dreams!

 

[Spring Onion]

My apologies then.

I lost track of the context that the phrase "Islamic freedom fighters wanting liberation" provided to your posts. It got lost in the haze of "Pakhtoonistan" etc., while I was quickly skimming posts, and the glow from Jana's picture.

: i think you must be appreciated

 

[Mustapha]

Salaams,

Lol... we are debating on facts...

Lol, you act as if you have no idea... ever heard of the Islamic Caliphate. It was basically all the way from Spain to Pakistan and north to Kazakhstan.

Ofcourse the Shias were a big dent in the way.

There is something called Diplomacy The Shias can have their own share with their historic lands...Persia...

Thats why the Shias had their own Safavid Empire... in Persia. Basically all the Sunnis said "ok" now they have their own safeheaven, and they won't bother us anymore. Thus an agreement was made.

The only reasons why the Uzbeks, Mughals, and Ottomans attacked the Safavids; was because they were going aganist the original agreement and were trying to expand their realm in Azerbaijan. So basically we just pushed them back to their original borders.
Thats why the only Shia majority country in the world is Iran, historically.

Bahrain is an exception since they count the Iraqi Shia expats in their censuses. By some time or another they will go back to Iraq, since obviously they are Iraqi expats.


I would be glad to give you another history lesson if you like...but now its kind of getting late...so I need to briefly state some other things...

I don't see in what being the best has to do by replying to your comments, but anyways...

I simply Reply to give my views and ideas (and possibly convince others), so the others and can also give their views and give their responses. Lol, if you see "responding to and receiving" ideas on the forum as some sort of a rivalry...by all means see it that way.

Yeah so what about trying to be the best? Thats what most people strive to achieve.
I don't see how ambitions are beyond religion... If you are Morally upstraight and honest you won't have bad motives or ambitions. Its common sense...

People know (Or atleast taught) the difference between Right & Wrong... Unless ofcourse the person is mentally ill thats another story. Some religions (Like Islam) tell us the difference between right and wrong. if you don't adhere to the rules obviously what you will be doing is wrong hence it being bad.

Ofcourse we have seen some bad leaders in the past, because they had not adhered to ethics and rules.



Well, gamin, no need for me go anywhere...all we need is to try Diplomacy... but then again if that does not work, then the Trangressors must be stopped with force. Once again Common Sense, so that "Good" will prevail.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Mustapha,

Ah the Caliphate!

And you feel that the Caliphate can be resurrected!

Capital idea, but an impossible dream.

First attempt to bring Peace amongst the Sunnis and then continue your dream fest!

Reality of the contemporary socio economic and political scenario requires to be grappled with and dreams dreamt thereafter!

History is good as a guide and an excellent vehicle to stir the soul and warm the cockles of one's heart and fill the minds with pleasant dreams, but one must understand why the Caliphate collapsed and why it never regained its pristine glory!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Well, gamin, no need for me go anywhere...all we need is to try Diplomacy... but then again if that does not work, then the Trangressors must be stopped with force. Once again Common Sense, so that "Good" will prevail.

Mustapha,

In other words, you are suggesting that come what may including war will be waged to organise what you want.

Who is the Transgressor that has to be stopped by Force?

And you call the route to your idea of glory as "Good"? Really?

You want to subjugate all to your way and ideas and not allow them to have independence! And that is "Good".

If that be so, why all the hullabaloo over Bush? He is also wanting all to accept the American way of life and their values!

He and you seem to have a commonality in thought and idea!

So, in other words, you advocate and praise Bush and his route to impose the American way of life and values since he and you are the same in ideas!

 

[dabong1]

I have to prove nothing to anyone.

I am what I am.

I do not believe in organised religion since it has been hijacked by men and men who lust for power in the name of piety and goodness, when in actuality spread hatred and distrust.



See how the Muallhmen have hijacked Islam in the name of AQ and Taliban and they are killing Moslems while claiming to be the vanguard of Islam! Is that religion?

Sunnis kill Shias and vice versa, Hindus kill Moslems and vice versa, Christains kill Moslems and vice versa and yet all religion claims that it is a religion of peace! Are they? Yes, religion is, but those who interpret it as the custodians and proclaim from the rooftops are not!


In my opinion religion has caused so much of hatred, mayhem and distrust. It is not because religion is bad. It is because practitioners of religion want to convert it into a platform to subjugate others! That is not religion.

Compare the amount killed fighting for there faith during the past thousand years with those killed fighting for "secularism democracy capitalism" in the last two hundred.
More people have been killed fighting non faith wars...first world war,second world war..all the smaller asian and african wars.
I dont see ranting about how we should not trust the leaders and ideals of these mass murders.
Go and compare the numbers killed by islamic militants with those killed by the US army during the last 50 years.

 

[dabong1]

Mustapha,

Ah the Caliphate!

And you feel that the Caliphate can be resurrected!

Capital idea, but an impossible dream.!

A bit like bringing back the roman empire......oh they have done that with the EU have they not......."an impossible dream"

First attempt to bring Peace amongst the Sunnis and then continue your dream fest!

Reality of the contemporary socio economic and political scenario requires to be grappled with and dreams dreamt thereafter!

History is good as a guide and an excellent vehicle to stir the soul and warm the cockles of one's heart and fill the minds with pleasant dreams, but one must understand why the Caliphate collapsed and why it never regained its pristine glory!

The roman empire collapsed a thousand years ago and they bought that back,the islamic caliphate was dismantled less then 80 years ago but you think theres no way that the muslim lands will unify......sorry mate your the dreamer.