Pakistan possible answer against india nuclear submarine

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

desi guy when same terroerist act happen in gujrat when bajrangi ripped the stomach of pragnent woman u say he must be in jail he kills innocent muslim and their is no bigger crime than that still u said to put him in jail not to hang him if same thing happen with u hindus u take symthy of world by saying terroe attck by muslims on india and must kill those terrorists man u should go to cycatrist than come and talk i respect u as our friend but ur words says it all that ur anti islam

and how do we put nuclear submarine discussion on this post .......

 

[Myth_buster_1]

in my last post....i had already given up...u won.....

please please... tell me tell...

 

[graphican]

dudeeee, you r right!

i did not say , pakistan is supporting terroists In India!
you r saying that.

indeed, pakistan is supporting terriosts in jammu and kashmir and look what happens, jammu and kashmir became like afghanistan.

How nice! Sweet little analysis of humanity lovers who has bloomed flowers in Afghanistan. Ofcours you should be worried about other gardens that are not being taken care as good as you are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. Aww such a lovely dovely babies you are. *MUA* *MUA* *MUA* Huny bunch do you want some candies?

 

[TOPGUN]

Forget the nuke sub for Pak right now or even later in the future ! we need the 3 subs eather from france or germany! when ever if GOD forgive the showdown happens we shall see to it!

 

[graphican]

If Pakistan leases Gwadar port to China then Pakistan can make Indian sub a direct problem of Chinese too. One and one is eleven.

We should take responsibility of our concerns and security on our shoulders. China is a supporter, not solution to all our problems.

By the way, why do we need a "tit for tat" for every single bit of development that India does? India has many times more human, natural and economic resources than we do and the gap between our strengths is rational. If they have a submarine, we better have some anti-submarine technology and the issue is solved. Now this is where Pakistan can look towards China, France or other friendly nations.

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

please please... tell me tell...

Brief comparison of Nuclear vs Conventional Sub capability / advantages / disadvantages.

1) Cost – A modern nuclear submarine is at least twice as expensive as a conventional submarine. A U-214 will cost ~ $400-500 million per sub, while even small French subs such as Rubis Amethyste Class cost close to $1 billion per sub. Chinese SSN are probably cheaper but there are no public figures available on that. So those who reason that one should have a larger fleet of conventional subs have a valid argument.


2) Sensor Suite – Modern conventional subs have quite advanced sensors. We know at least in the case if French that many sensors from their nuclear sub programmes have found their way into the conventional subs.

3) Weapons – With the exception of Ballistic missiles, conventional subs can deploy all of the weapons a nuclear sub can deploy. However, a nuclear sub is typically bigger so it can carry a bigger payload.

4) Stealth – Modern nuclear subs are much quieter than those of the past generation but even the quietest nuclear sub makes more noise than a conventional sub running on batteries. A conventional sub running on it batteries is very very difficult to find, specially in littoral waters. The stories of US nuclear subs being unable to find NATO conventional subs in exercises are well know. For a nuclear sub, there is noise from pumps, steam and electric plant, all of which can be picked up by a good sonar system. But the littoral water also offer the nuclear sub the same protection in terms of masking its noise as they would for a conventional sub, so that environment is difficult for sub hunting in any case. I once read a very good article on this specific topic of how a nuclear sub may try and offset some of its stealth disadvantage, I will try and find it.

5) Power, Range and Endurance – These are the biggest advantages that nuclear subs have over conventional submarine. They are truly independent of the surface for as long as their food supplies last. The nuclear reactor provides all the energy needed. They make their own water and oxygen, their batteries can be recharged even while deeply submerged. They can stay on-station, submerged for months. This was a huge tactical advantage.

For a conventional submarine, AIP has considerably improved the submerged time. For example Agosta 70 can stay underwater for ~ 4 days at 3.5kts with a range of 350 kts, for Agosta 90, AIP improves this by a factor of 3-5 to 10-15 days. However, they key here to understand that the range underwater is considerably decreased particularly if they go fast. U- 214 has a12,000nm range – but that is only if it is surfaced (which makes it quite vulnerable); also, its max speed is 10-12kts on surface. Its submerged range is much reduced at 420 nmi (at 8 kts) and 1248 nmi (at 4kts) on AIP/fuel cells. So while theoretically it can stay under water for 2-3 weeks, its speed and range are strongly affected in those conditions.

A conventional sub speed tops out at ~20kts under water (Agosta 90 is listed as 17kts). A nuclear sub can do at least 30kts. This considerably decreases transit time to its target and they ability to catch or out run the enemy.


For a Pakistan / India scenerio, a nuclear sub would offer the PN several operational advantages and flexibility.

1) A nuclear sub will give PN unlimited range to be threat to the entire Indian coast including the assets in the Bay of Bengal. IN will no longer be able to hide its carrier there without significant protection. Indians have built a lot of their strategic sites far south to stay out of PAF’s range. While many of SSMs can target those, this will give added options (specially when armed with cruise missiles). While a SSK can be deployed to these locations, its transit time and range are no match for an SSN as I have previously described. A nulcear sub can get to the Bay of Bengal in under 4 days at 30kts and under 2 days to the southern tip of the Indian peninsula - and it can do this while submerged to escape detection. If a U-214 attempts this entire journey submerged, it will take it 10 days, to go the journey quicker as faster speed, it will have to surface to charge batteries as the fuel cells will get depleted much quicker at fast speeds. This will make it much more vulnerable.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

We should take responsibility of our concerns and security on our shoulders. China is a supporter, not solution to all our problems.

By the way, why do we need a "tit for tat" for every single bit of development that India does? India has many times more human, natural and economic resources than we do and the gap between our strengths is rational. If they have a submarine, we better have some anti-submarine technology and the issue is solved. Now this is where Pakistan can look towards China, France or other friendly nations.

I was refereeing to in case Pakistan faces navel blockade in future so it will block Gwadar port too so China will make sure it never happens if they are there.
You need protection from the bully if they are big

 

[toxic_pus]

Pakistan's biggest disadvantage is its coastline. It is just too short. Given the limited number of ports, naval and civilian, theoretically it very much possible for IN to keep track of every single vessel comming in or sailing out of the ports (which in any case they probably do). The vessels can then be stalked on priority basis (IN doesn't have enough submarine to stalk all the vessels). That includes, the apparently invincible U-214. So it is possible for IN, at least theoretically, to know the whereabouts of vessels, that IN considers as potential threat. On the other hand INS Arihant will probably be berthed on the west coast of India, making it impossible for PN to keep track of its departure or arrival schedule, unless of course China comes to the rescue. IN doesn't have this advantage with conventional subs.

What this means is that, Pak will be practically clueless about the location of IN nuclear sub(s), whereas it is very much possible for IN to be very much aware of its adversaries location and can take it out, if necessary, without too much hassle. All this "best hunt down shot down capability" will come to naught then.

Just my 2 paisa.

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

so from above analysis....my friends u all know what india has acquired.....quite threatning...

 

[PAFAce]

You do not require a nuclear submarine to counter a nuclear submarine. What a ridiculous idea that is. It all depends on your strategy. Pakistan cannot afford and does not need a nuclear submarine anytime soon (up to 10 years). I do believe that it will be a worthwhile effort to begin our own efforts of nuclear submarine design, but let's not panic. India's plans are much grander than Pakistan's. Also, we must keep in mind that Pakistan Army and Navy have always been good at countering Indian impetuosity with cool, calm intelligence, severely blunting, if not nullifying, Indian advantages on most occasions. It is the Pakistani Air Force that lacks in this regard, unfortunately, and has not yet found its way.

Hence, let's wait before we make any brash moves. Indian nuclear submarine is like a good horror flick, it's scary at first, but the effect will wear off as we realize that it's no big threat to us.

Also, DesiGuy, your days here seem to be very numbered. This forum is a place where intelligence is welcomed, not biased-agenda and ignorant-low-blows. I suggest you continue to behave the way you are, so that we can see the back of you soon.

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

You do not require a nuclear submarine to counter a nuclear submarine. What a ridiculous idea that is. It all depends on your strategy. Pakistan cannot afford and does not need a nuclear submarine anytime soon (up to 10 years). I do believe that it will be a worthwhile effort to begin our own efforts of nuclear submarine design, but let's not panic. India's plans are much grander than Pakistan's. Also, we must keep in mind that Pakistan Army and Navy have always been good at countering Indian impetuosity with cool, calm intelligence, severely blunting, if not nullifying, Indian advantages on most occasions. It is the Pakistani Air Force that lacks in this regard, unfortunately, and has not yet found its way

i disagree with you.................. for land based defense..there can be a strategy....for air based defense there cann be strategy....for on-sea based...there can be a strategy............but my dear friend....here comes the father of all STEALTH..........a nuclear submarine deep inside water........there is no strategy...to defend this...until on the opposite side there is another one to lock horns...

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

pls remember a nuclear submarine is a potential threat to air, sea, land based platforms.......whereas vice versa is not true...and even if vice versa is true....asians do not have that " tested and effective technology "presently................anybody correct me if i am wrong

 

[Super Falcon]

our anti submarine Z 10 also can do the job against ur nuke sub and if war goes between us china will send its half of navy to gawadar

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

our anti submarine Z 10 also can do the job against ur nuke sub and if war goes between us china will send its half of navy to gawadar

i donot have neither PN or IN stance......but pls elaborate....how?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

ouiouiouiouiouioui

you are over hyping nuclear powered subs capabilities.. high costs do not necessarily means you have the best thing... only if pakistan was few thousand km apart from india would those nuclear powered subs really posed their full limit threat.. first of all... and again.. what i was trying to emphases that Type-214 will be more then enough to take on indian nuclear sub one on one. i have no idea how you came up with a conclusion that nuclear powered sub is threat to AIR?? while conventional powered sub like TYPE-214 pose no threat to sea,air,and land?? what BS?? infact ever heard of IDAS? this weapon was on display along with German U-boat in pakistan defence exibition.. i man sure once the deal is done, IDAS will be part of weapons package. this will make our U-boat true ANTI-air,land,sea,sub capable submarine!