Pakistan played its role in helping Kashmiris: PM AJK

[R-DB]

amen

 

[R-DB]

actually 2 nation theory was a huge success......1947 is proof of that.

nobody said that all Muslims in british hindustan were pro-Pakistan (e.g. deobandi - hind movement)....while others who wanted to migrate were either killed or were not able to find a way to join the exodus.

Pakistan has legitimate claims over Kashmir and its position on Kashmir has been fairly clear....it is the indians who are under the false dis-illusion that bullets and torture are ways to keep Kashmiris bogged down and in turmoil.


to claim that Pakistan ''can't claim Kashmir'' but the indians can is purely laugh-worthy at best...it surely does not keep into consideration the realities on the ground in the disputed region.

just one question before leaving from thread.

Can you do this from any way??i mean any way......
60 years you tried but what you got??atlast you had to come on table
and not its upto india to give you anything if india wants..there will not be any western support to you like you had b4
and those anti india forces were eliminated and will be eliminated in future.you can continue to shout.

like it or not but its truth

 

[KS]

That's why India is afraid to hold a referendum in Kashmir even when Nehru in 1948 promised the Kashmiri people a referendum.

LOL..atleast get the dates if not the facts correct.

Nehru said so in 1953 in Sri Nagar. And after the 1971 Shimla Agreement when Pakistan agreed (made to) to make Kashmir a bilaterla dispute between India and Pakistan, the UNSC resolutions essentially became void and that was confirmed by UN Sec Gen Kofi Annan in 2000.

 

[R-DB]

LOL..atleast get the dates if not the facts correct.

Nehru said so in 1953 in Sri Nagar. And after the 1971 Shimla Agreement when Pakistan agreed (made to) to make Kashmir a bilaterla dispute between India and Pakistan, the UNSC resolutions essentially became void and that was confirmed by UN Sec Gen Kofi Annan in 2000.

kashmir is an issue which will be solved according to indian terms mostly
even mushy agreed on it and present talk are going as per that

 

[DRaisinHerald]

Inshallah Kashmir will be Free , Pak has Illegally occupied it since last 65 years

The Kashmir case is the same as that of Junagadh and Manavadar, today in Gujarat. The ruler of Kashmir was a non-Muslim, and despite the common sentiment of the Kashmiris, which wanted to join Pakistan, the Maharaja ceded Kashmir to India (and then Pak "attacked" to liberate it). In Junagadh and Manavadar, the rulers of the states were Muslims, and the subjects non-Muslims. The rulers of these 2 states ceded control to Pakistan, but India attacked, removed the kings from power, exiled them, and annexed the states into the Union of India.
So these 2 states (and Hyderabad and more) are as "illegal" in India as Kashmir is supposedly "illegal" in Pak.
Those that do not want to hold a referendum are insecure and know the outcome. Now I wonder who the "illegal occupiers" are..

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

just one question before leaving from thread.

Can you do this from any way??i mean any way......
60 years you tried but what you got??atlast you had to come on table
and not its upto india to give you anything if india wants..there will not be any western support to you like you had b4
and those anti india forces were eliminated and will be eliminated in future.you can continue to shout.

like it or not but its truth

all just a breath of empty, hot air....


dust-bin worthy

 

[nalandapride]

nobody said that all Muslims in british hindustan were pro-Pakistan (e.g. deobandi - hind movement)

This very line proved that Two-Nation Theory failed. It again failed in 1971 when Bangladeshis opted for Bengali Nationalism.

 

[R-DB]

all just a breath of empty, hot air....


dust-bin worthy

but i didnt trashed your post in bin and if its hot air then tell your options(if any)
cool way to divert answer which u dont have

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

This very line proved that Two-Nation Theory failed. It again failed in 1971 when Bangladeshis opted for Bengali Nationalism.

which is why they have a seperate country....but erstwhile e.Pakistan was not the political center. None of the founders of modern day Pakistan even came from there. Ethnically we are very different. Now of course Islam transcends borders, which is one reason why there are many on both sides who have forgotten the tragic past.

if the 2-nation theory failed, Pakistan wouldnt be on the map. But not only is it on the map, but its a nuclear power country that can never be brought down by enemies -even those many times our size. A country the size of india should have been able to capture Pakistan (i cant say ''re-capture'' since it never was indian in the first place). They couldnt.

looking at Kashmir -- well Pakistan's input hasnt been as much as it should be. But Kashmiris appreciate Pakistan's support. That is why Azad Kashmiris are some of the most nationalistic Pakistanis that exist. Even the Kashmiris of the valley are very pro-Pakistan, which is a good sign.

as they also speak and read good Urdu there, we have many ways of reaching out and communicating with them.....after all, we are bonded not just by similar ethnicity but also linguistic and faith-based similarities. The people of not just Azad Kashmir but also Pakistan do hope that a just and fair solution would be reached, so that the people on both sides of LoC would be able to unite their families and prosper -- without external meddling and intimidation of a few triggy-happy security forces (sissies)

 

[R-DB]

if the 2-nation theory failed, Pakistan wouldnt be on the map. But not only is it on the map, but its a nuclear power country that can never be brought down by enemies -even those many times our size. A country the size of india should have been able to capture Pakistan (i cant say ''re-capture'' since it never was indian in the first place). They couldnt.

looking at Kashmir -- well Pakistan's input hasnt been as much as it should be. But Kashmiris appreciate Pakistan's support. That is why Azad Kashmiris are some of the most nationalistic Pakistanis that exist. Even the Kashmiris of the valley are very pro-Pakistan, which is a good sign.

as they also speak and read good Urdu there, we have many ways of reaching out and communicating with them.....after all, we are bonded not just by similar ethnicity but also linguistic and faith-based similarities. The people of not just Azad Kashmir but also Pakistan do hope that a just and fair solution would be reached, so that the people on both sides of LoC would be able to unite their families and prosper -- without external meddling and intimidation of a few triggy-happy security forces (sissies)

if the 2-nation theory failed, Pakistan wouldnt be on the map. But not only is it on the map, but its a nuclear power country that can never be brought down by enemies -even those many times our size. A country the size of india should have been able to capture Pakistan (i cant say ''re-capture'' since it never was indian in the first place). They couldnt.

pakistan is on map coz of the leaders who wanted to create it for throwing out the muslims from new india.There were reasons for that reaction.They knew few points.

1)muslim as majority if new country not created.
2)Past of the mughals did .
3)presence of british and british willingness to divide country and also the congress party at that time.

They already knew that this country will be messed up due to absence of good leaders and will be taken by military generals and will be source of instability.you can read the theory mentioned by kalam azd wrt new nation at that time.he didnt want to create the pakistan but congress cleverly played the trick and in this way your two nation theory came in existence.

looking at Kashmir -- well Pakistan's input hasnt been as much as it should be. But Kashmiris appreciate Pakistan's support. That is why Azad Kashmiris are some of the most nationalistic Pakistanis that exist. Even the Kashmiris of the valley are very pro-Pakistan, which is a good sign.

as they also speak and read good Urdu there, we have many ways of reaching out and communicating with them.....after all, we are bonded not just by similar ethnicity but also linguistic and faith-based similarities. The people of not just Azad Kashmir but also Pakistan do hope that a just and fair solution would be reached, so that the people on both sides of LoC would be able to unite their families and prosper -- without external meddling and intimidation of a few triggy-happy security forces (sissies)

speaking urdu or smthing else is not an criteria.solution of kashmir is removal of security forces from civil areas and let the locals to meet their relatives across borders but without changing borders.For further,you can read the points of agreements b/w mushy and GOI.and pakistan will have to remove the UN resolutions and it will be solved bilaterally.

but present condition says smthing else.There have never been an aggression in GOI towards pakistan but now we can see.
There will be 20-25 dams on rivers going to pakistan till 2020.

 

[nalandapride]

which is why they have a seperate country....but erstwhile e.Pakistan was not the political center. None of the founders of modern day Pakistan even came from there. Ethnically we are very different. Now of course Islam transcends borders, which is one reason why there are many on both sides who have forgotten the tragic past.

if the 2-nation theory failed, Pakistan wouldnt be on the map. But not only is it on the map, but its a nuclear power country that can never be brought down by enemies -even those many times our size. A country the size of india should have been able to capture Pakistan (i cant say ''re-capture'' since it never was indian in the first place). They couldnt.

looking at Kashmir -- well Pakistan's input hasnt been as much as it should be. But Kashmiris appreciate Pakistan's support. That is why Azad Kashmiris are some of the most nationalistic Pakistanis that exist. Even the Kashmiris of the valley are very pro-Pakistan, which is a good sign.

as they also speak and read good Urdu there, we have many ways of reaching out and communicating with them.....after all, we are bonded not just by similar ethnicity but also linguistic and faith-based similarities. The people of not just Azad Kashmir but also Pakistan do hope that a just and fair solution would be reached, so that the people on both sides of LoC would be able to unite their families and prosper -- without external meddling and intimidation of a few triggy-happy security forces (sissies)

Partition cannot be undone but surely Two Nation theory failed to create its objective of creating two Pure Hindu state and a Muslim state. In reality it was the Taqseem of Muslims of the subcontinent who now resides as three nationalities consider themselves as three different nations. Partition was good otherwise India would have become something like Lebanon. And when Bangladesh was created in 1971 Bengali Hindus were embraced as equal brothers and Bihari Muslims were stripped out of their Citizenship which also failed Two Nation Theory.

Also Pakistan was created but Hindu-Muslim tension was replaced by Pashtun-Muhajir-Sindhi tension. More people die in Target killing alone in Karachi in couple of years than communal riots in 10-15 yrs in India.

And Word Azad Kashmirs is a disambiguous term. People of Azad Kashmir are Poonchis and Mirpuris related to Punjabis. Kashmirs live in Kashmir valley only, the people of Jammu are Dogras and that of Kargil-Ladakh are Ladakhi. And if they speak Urdu fine what a big deal, some 60 millions Muslims in India speak Urdu as their first languages. It is one of the 22 official languages of India and official language in 5 states of India. Also, Kashmiri language is a Dardic language quite different from Punjabi or Urdu or Dogri.

And yes we look for solution and that could only be achieved through peace-talks. You tried every trick in last 65 years all failed. And I support what Musharraf wanted, a middle path for the solution. War-mongers' method will only lead to disaster.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

pakistan is on map coz of the leaders who wanted to create it for throwing out the muslims from new india.There were reasons for that reaction.They knew few points.

1)muslim as majority if new country not created.
2)Past of the mughals did .
3)presence of british and british willingness to divide country and also the congress party at that time.

the funny thing is -- the brits and the congress of kangaroos were holding eachother by the nuts and had more in common with eachother than they did with the Muslim League. Well, Gandhi was anti-colonialist as well and we cant deny that fact though his version of resistance was much different than what ''our side'' had in mind

i always laugh at educated indians and half-educated low-quality madrassa educated people ALIKE --who claim that Quaid e Azam Sahib was a ''british agent'' ...when in fact, he opposed the British and his nationalistic speeches drew huge crowds of support. There is a reason why Pakistan as a concept and idea was coined in 1920s/30s well before even the actual nation became physically cast in steel.

as for maps -- well the indians have had some expansionist designs. Kashmir is a signal of that. Fortunately, Kashmiris have been defiant and resistant for quite some time. Only now, its not through militancy. I've spoken to many Kashmiris about the subject and one recurring theme i noticed was that the Arab Spring movement in middle east was an inspiration for them....we live in a new time where social media and internet connectivity have changed the way we make our messages heard, and changed the way we communicate with the rest of the world.....


on the subject of Kashmir, well -- indian perfidy and blatant double-standards knows no bounds. I think ideally speaking, the indians should prepare themselves for the inevitable. They should prepare themselves with HOW to deal and work with a Kashmir that is not under their artificial strangle-hold. New delhi has no legitimacy in Muzaffarabad or Sri Nagar. In Ladakh and Jammu, they may have more influence and say most certainly --cant deny that.

They already knew that this country will be messed up due to absence of good leaders and will be taken by military generals and will be source of instability.

the Kashmir conflict is not one of economics....

speaking urdu or smthing else is not an criteria.solution of kashmir is removal of security forces from civil areas and let the locals to meet their relatives across borders

this i do agree with...well on linguistics, it does play a very huge role. Why do you think there are Punjabi Sikh Jatts who feel more at home in Lahore than they do in, say, New Delhi. Not that i want to discuss the whole Sikh thing here.

de-militarization would help with confidence building....in our case, we will reciprocate once the indians withdraw their offensive forces away from our borders. As long as they are there, it is only natural that Pakistan responded in kind.

There have never been an aggression in GOI towards pakistan but now we can see.
There will be 20-25 dams on rivers going to pakistan till 2020.

agriculture is still an important sector of our economy....if you alienate tens of millions of Pakistanis --who as it is, already dont have a favourable view of india -- you will create more enemies

i know india strives off poor relations with pretty much all of its neighbours --but in the case of Pakistan, such a move -like limiting our water- would be analogous to an act of war against Pakistan. Action would be taken, especially in light of violation of treaties. What kind of action, well --all options would remain and be readily available on the table. It's a decision taken by the executive.


me just stating the obvious

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

And when Bangladesh was created in 1971 Bengali Hindus were embraced as equal brothers and Bihari Muslims were stripped out of their Citizenship which also failed Two Nation Theory.

it's interesting to bring up Bangladesh. By the way, did they re-accede to hindustan? Or did they remain independent?

answer this question.

to be quite blunt, i think from the very beginning Bangladesh should have just been Bangladesh. You cant have one country, governed and with equal share of resources distributed between 2 wings with one gigantic enemy country right down the middle of it.....logistical nightmare. I think the fact that the East Pakistan Army held its ground for so long speaks volumes about the level of fight they had in them.

all the Muslim Bengalis who fought against the miscreant mukti bahinis were slaughtered in huge numbers....in that sense, the use of armed rebel ''non-state actors'' was something which the indians had perfected and were actually very good at....quite ironic that they accuse us of doing the same thing today

 

[R-DB]

as for maps -- well the indians have had some expansionist designs. Kashmir is a signal of that. Fortunately, Kashmiris have been defiant and resistant for quite some time. Only now, its not through militancy. I've spoken to many Kashmiris about the subject and one recurring theme i noticed was that the Arab Spring movement in middle east was an inspiration for them....we live in a new time where social media and internet connectivity have changed the way we make our messages heard, and changed the way we communicate with the rest of the world.....


on the subject of Kashmir, well -- indian perfidy and blatant double-standards knows no bounds. I think ideally speaking, the indians should prepare themselves for the inevitable. They should prepare themselves with HOW to deal and work with a Kashmir that is not under their artificial strangle-hold. New delhi has no legitimacy in Muzaffarabad or Sri Nagar. In Ladakh and Jammu, they may have more influence and say most certainly --cant deny that.





the Kashmir conflict is not one of economics....





this i do agree with...well on linguistics, it does play a very huge role. Why do you think there are Punjabi Sikh Jatts who feel more at home in Lahore than they do in, say, New Delhi. Not that i want to discuss the whole Sikh thing here.

de-militarization would help with confidence building....in our case, we will reciprocate once the indians withdraw their offensive forces away from our borders. As long as they are there, it is only natural that Pakistan responded in kind.




agriculture is still an important sector of our economy....if you alienate tens of millions of Pakistanis --who as it is, already dont have a favourable view of india -- you will create more enemies

i know india strives off poor relations with pretty much all of its neighbours --but in the case of Pakistan, such a move -like limiting our water- would be analogous to an act of war against Pakistan. Action would be taken, especially in light of violation of treaties. What kind of action, well --all options would remain and be readily available on the table. It's a decision taken by the executive.


me just stating the obvious

as for maps -- well the indians have had some expansionist designs. Kashmir is a signal of that. Fortunately, Kashmiris have been defiant and resistant for quite some time. Only now, its not through militancy. I've spoken to many Kashmiris about the subject and one recurring theme i noticed was that the Arab Spring movement in middle east was an inspiration for them....we live in a new time where social media and internet connectivity have changed the way we make our messages heard, and changed the way we communicate with the rest of the world.....

India never had expansion design but kashmir was source of water for us and we were called for help so we went.
but i think water issue was important point rather than call of help by ruler.i also talked to many kashmiris.They get optimistic when any leader of pakistan or some world talk about them.but many of them have different stance towards pakistan.Few of them hate badly pakistan due to their behaviour with them.it is easy to solve it but without changing borders and paksitan will have to compromise it coz u have tried all option and india have got more powerful than ever even have all kind of diplomatic support.

this i do agree with...well on linguistics, it does play a very huge role. Why do you think there are Punjabi Sikh Jatts who feel more at home in Lahore than they do in, say, New Delhi. Not that i want to discuss the whole Sikh thing here.

de-militarization would help with confidence building....in our case, we will reciprocate once the indians withdraw their offensive forces away from our borders. As long as they are there, it is only natural that Pakistan responded in kind.

i live in punjab but i dont see such things like feel gud.
Tell me one thing,how many times india attacked pakistan??you got inspiration from chinese attack on 62 and id 65 but got nothing and india achieved 71 by doings of pakistan and even in 99,you did same thing but later on came on table.
but i said earlier,there is psycho in india to prepare themselves for two front war and you will see more aggression in indian policy.and border will be more armed like never before.

agriculture is still an important sector of our economy....if you alienate tens of millions of Pakistanis --who as it is, already dont have a favourable view of india -- you will create more enemies

i know india strives off poor relations with pretty much all of its neighbours --but in the case of Pakistan, such a move -like limiting our water- would be analogous to an act of war against Pakistan. Action would be taken, especially in light of violation of treaties. What kind of action, well --all options would remain and be readily available on the table. It's a decision taken by the executive.

This will be important part of discussions b/w two country but its nothing more than arm twisting by india to get their demands.
its more a psychological war.and you clearly know that you cant do anything against india militarily.so better is to come on table and you will have to give more coz of the present status and india holds more points and much diplomatic support.

 

[Hulk]

Arab spring will not work in Kashmir, look at it seriously. Kashmiri's tried bigger movements and could not succeed, now how a comparable smaller movement will motivate them. Honestly there are soon people who are born fools, who dream of things cannot be achieved. Kashmiri's today are tired of participating in movements after other, lot of them have lost interest.