Pakistan Orders 40 JF-17 Fighter Aircraft, Contract signed with Foreign Customer

[abdulbarijan]

no, but that very expensive MICA suite did give India a bit of financial leverage, helped France and India come to a mutual understanding of sorts.. no ego here, it's just how high level hustling works

Still waiting on that quote --- anyways I would like to throw in a couple thoughts of mine on the French issue -- the Upgrade of Mirages in my point of view was not "THE" factor that led to cancellation of the French deal because it was worth around 2 Billion and the JFT deal was around 1.3 Billion give or take ... so I don't see the French giving up an extra 1.36 Billion there for a 2 Billion deal which was already in their pockets because at the time the IAF Mirage fleet was in bad shape and it was more or less a done deal ---

"The" deal that could have any sway was the MMRCA deal with RFP's given to 6 companies in 07 I think ... so when you have a 10+ Billion deal coming up for which you have to compete with the best aviation companies in the world with a jet that hadn't had a single export at the time, then you do think of leaving a 1.36 Billion deal to bag the deal worth 10+ billion and ofcourse .. that is more or less what happened ..

However, the Rafale is doing fairly well these days, bagging two deals from Qatar and Egypt ... But lets revisit India ... the country that lobbied to cancel the avionics deal while showing a 10+ billion dollar deal and then cutting the deal by a third of its original intended strength ... How does that inspire confidence in the business world ... ?? You yourself mentioned that now the avionics deal for JFT seems to be on the table yet again ... take a guess as to why ...

 

[Barrel-Bomba]

Still waiting on that quote --- anyways I would like to throw in a couple thoughts of mine on the French issue -- the Upgrade of Mirages in my point of view was not "THE" factor that led to cancellation of the French deal because it was worth around 2 Billion and the JFT deal was around 1.3 Billion give or take ... so I don't see the French giving up an extra 1.36 Billion there for a 2 Billion deal which was already in their pockets because at the time the IAF Mirage fleet was in bad shape and it was more or less a done deal ---

"The" deal that could have any sway was the MMRCA deal with RFP's given to 6 companies in 07 I think ... so when you have a 10+ Billion deal coming up for which you have to compete with the best aviation companies in the world with a jet that hadn't had a single export at the time, then you do think of leaving a 1.36 Billion deal to bag the deal worth 10+ billion and ofcourse .. that is more or less what happened ..

However, the Rafale is doing fairly well these days, bagging two deals from Qatar and Egypt ... But lets revisit India ... the country that lobbied to cancel the avionics deal while showing a 10+ billion dollar deal and then cutting the deal by a third of its original intended strength ... How does that inspire confidence in the business world ... ?? You yourself mentioned that now the avionics deal for JFT seems to be on the table yet again ... take a guess as to why ...

that news about the avionics/ew being "on the table again" appeared when it looked like there might not be a deal at all, the original contract has since been scrapped and Modi signed a govt. to govt. agreement when he visited, so it's most likely off the table again.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

too late for that but stopped the french with supplying avionics, something which has been a source of concern with MFDs going blank mid flight, right ?

Problems arises problem resolves Machine was flying, it's still flying in active duty and it will keep on flying and securing order till its life span and been replaced by newer machine. We are not trying alhumdulillah we achieved and we will improve it in future ourself.

 

[Barrel-Bomba]

Problems arises problem resolves Machine was flying, it's still flying in active duty and it will keep on flying and securing order till its life span and been replaced by newer machine. We are not trying alhumdulillah we achieved and we will improve it in future ourself.

yes, there was/is an issue with that, not sure of the extent of the problem but maybe @Windjammer knows more on it, not that PAF or the Chinese will make it public anyway.

and yes, you wanted French stuff, but didn't get it because India and Rafale.

 

[Brickwall]

I Think Myanmar

Buy why Myanmar, was not Myanmar involved in rohingya Muslim massacre, and if i remember correctly Pakistan was foremost opposing it.

Any reason sudden turnaround in policy?

 

[My-Analogous]

Buy why Myanmar, was not Myanmar involved in rohingya Muslim massacre, and if i remember correctly Pakistan was foremost opposing it.

Any reason sudden turnaround in policy?

Change in Govt

 

[Mughal-Prince]

yes, there was/is an issue with that, not sure of the extent of the problem but maybe @Windjammer knows more on it, not that PAF or the Chinese will make it public anyway.

Baita I am telling you it's been resolved .

and yes, you wanted French stuff, but didn't get it because India and Rafale.

And they regret it because their butt been kicked out of a huge LNG or LPG contract of 6+ billion $s in musharraf era just because they show us their A$$ for avionics . I remember the high ups from France visiting Pakistan to resolve the issue but they lost it and now what happen to MMRCA . India agreed for 36 Rafale just to save their face and good will nothing much because they had already estimated its far better to stick with MKI instead of super expensive Rafael which brings in some technology but it's prohibitively expensive but it's still hanging in the air. In the end French are losers and India has significantly lost the efficacy of their bitching for defence deals of Pakistan.

To sum up we did bring in the French avionics deal on the table again but that was not for JFT because the systems we are using in it are surprisingly very good and effective and we don't need French stuff any more as they have lost their edge against our new system which is the readiness and matured technologies as well as already available arsenal which is tried and tested so time would be reduced for production but it's an old story because systems has been matured and out come is much better than expected. So actually the deal on the table for the second time was just to make India to finalise the MMRCA dingo dango nonsense.

 

[abdulbarijan]

that news about the avionics/ew being "on the table again" appeared when it looked like there might not be a deal at all, the original contract has since been scrapped and Modi signed a govt. to govt. agreement when he visited, so it's most likely off the table again.

Actually I would not agree ... and here is my reasoning ... You gave out RFP's, and evaluated 6 machines, short listed 2 in 2011, then made a decision in 2012 (which was more or less made given the situation with the avionics deal etc.) ... however -- you leave a very bad taste in the mouth of people when you take 3 years after you reach your decision and reduce your intended purchase by a THIRD of its strength ... 10 + Billion dollar in sales and then long term profits go down the drain and the original deal which at one time was even inflated and predicted to expand and being worth 20 Billion dollars ... turned out to be NOT 200 NOT 126 just 36 jets ...

With such an order I doubt you would have enough influence to block a sale -- lets wake up -- MMRCA is officially dead -- the Pak-FA numbers also have been reduced .. the Indians were unable to block the RD-93 sale which powers our airforce's back bone and is imported from a nation which India considers its best friend (Russia)--- and the same nation (Russia) considers India a great friend, to the point where Russian vice prime minister went as far as saying that "you can spit on my face" if Russia sells any weapons to Pakistan---

and now Pakistan is looking for a direct export of RD-93 from Russia etc. to the point where the news is of a Russian based AESA in consideration for block III ... So, the world doesn't revolve around Indian dealings or feelings ... bottom line being, when you present a huge deal, take 7 years in evaluations /negotiations and then cut the order by a third ... your pretty much screwed out of the position of influence you once had ...

 

[Brickwall]

Change in Govt

I believe deal was done with all powerful military establishment there even if there is new democratic government , it wont have much say on strategic matters

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

This picture was click on July 2015. So based on that we can say 20 block 2 + and 50 we have block 1
Chengdu JF-17/FC-1 Multirole Fighter | Page 6 | World Defence

The first picture clearly identifies 11th block 2. Hence 50 block 1 and 11 block 2 make it 61 JF-17s. Not 70.

PAF had an initial order of 10 block 2 aircraft and it is also known that per block only 50 aircraft would be made for PAF so the order of 40 would be to complete the required amount before the block 3 comes.

There was a MOU signed earlier this year between PAF and CAC for 50 JF 17blk 2's that are to be delivered by 2018. There are some speculations that export orders would not be manufactured in Pakistan but in China. This is due to the requirements of PAF however if a large order is received then a second assembly would be added. This could be in Pakistan or could be in the country procuring these aircraft.

 

[I S I]

This picture was click on July 2015. So based on that we can say 20 block 2 + and 50 we have block 1
Chengdu JF-17/FC-1 Multirole Fighter | Page 6 | World Defence

I thought you said that the unknown buyer has got the delivery of JF17s.

 

[My-Analogous]

The first picture clearly identifies 11th block 2. Hence 50 block 1 and 11 block 2 make it 61 JF-17s. Not 70.

PAF had an initial order of 10 block 2 aircraft and it is also known that per block only 50 aircraft would be made for PAF so the order of 40 would be to complete the required amount before the block 3 comes.

There was a MOU signed earlier this year between PAF and CAC for 50 JF 17blk 2's that are to be delivered by 2018. There are some speculations that export orders would not be manufactured in Pakistan but in China. This is due to the requirements of PAF however if a large order is received then a second assembly would be added. This could be in Pakistan or could be in the country procuring these aircraft.

Check second one which serial show 2B17 which mean block2 and 17 number

 

[RealNapster]

Buy why Myanmar, was not Myanmar involved in rohingya Muslim massacre, and if i remember correctly Pakistan was foremost opposing it.

Any reason sudden turnaround in policy?

Ok.. so let say we refuse to sell. then ?? they will get tejas. as Modi jee is not leaving a single opportunity to ditch Pakistan..
Similarly we don't have any vast market for our thunders .. Bangladesh, Sri lanka, Myanmar, and 2,3 Latin american countries. So if start refusing countries to sell. we will have nothing in hands then. So let Myanmar buy our weapons. Let them be dependent on Us for ammunition supply for there main Jet. and then we will talk about Rohingyan Muslims with them...

 

[Brickwall]

Ok.. so let say we refuse to sell. then ?? they will get tejas. as Modi jee is not leaving a single opportunity to ditch Pakistan..
Similarly we don't have any vast market for our thunders .. Bangladesh, Sri lanka, Myanmar, and 2,3 Latin american countries. So if start refusing countries to sell. we will have nothing in hands then. So let Myanmar buy our weapons. Let them be dependent on Us for ammunition supply for there main Jet. and then we will talk about Rohingyan Muslims with them...

So in short you are telling for money you are willing to sacrifice Muslims , great example of Muslim brotherhood. Speaking of hypocrisy you are okay with Myanmar killing Muslims but you have issue with India or Israel kills terrorist while defending their country.

Anyway, i don't think India will sell Tejas to any country so soon, it has to first fulfill India Demand, which will take long time and secondly India would like to mature the product before exporting to other countries.

 

[RealNapster]

So in short you are telling for money you are willing to sacrifice Muslims , great example of Muslim brotherhood. Speaking of hypocrisy you are okay with Myanmar killing Muslims but you have issue with India or Israel kills terrorist while defending their country.

Anyway, i don't think India will sell Tejas to any country so soon, it has to first fulfill India Demand, which will take long time and secondly India would like to mature the product before exporting to other countries.

brother. we care for Muslims. but refusing to sell weapons to Myanmar would a silly thing as by selling them weapon we can actually "tight" them in our club. because there Weapons will need OUR ammunition. just like america , as we have there F-16 so are bound to obey them because they will stop ammunition supply, maintenance, up gradation for our F-16's...

did you get my point ??
And by the way read this before claiming anything...
India Offers Lanka “Tejas” To Counter Pakistan’s JF-17: Report -The New Indian Express