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Nasir

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'Pakistan negotiating F-16 deal with Belgium, Netherlands'
'Pakistan Times' Federal Bureau

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan is currently negotiating with Belgium and Netherlands for purchase of used F-16 aircraft, 'The Nation' reported on Sunday .
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The decision to approach the two European nations was taken after Pakistan put on hold the purchase deal with the United States in the aftermath of the October-8 devastating earthquake because of its enormous cost.

As an alternative it was felt that the purchase of used sophisticated aircraft with the option to upgrade it would drastically cut costs while retaining much of its capabilities.

The latest India-US civil nuclear technology accord and renewal offer of sale of F-16 and F-18 to India has given a new context to Pakistan’s quest for the sophisticated conventional weapons capability. US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice Friday ruled out a similar nuclear technology deal with Pakistan, ostensibly because of non-proliferation concerns.

Pakistan has argued that already a huge imbalance exists in conventional capabilities of the two countries and the nuclear deal would compel it to lean more heavily on strengthening nuclear deterrence as an equalizer.

Negotiations

Reliable sources said the negotiations with Belgium and Netherlands had reached a fairly advanced stage but recently ran into some snags. Both the countries showed signs of slowing down the progress for mysterious reasons.

Pakistani officials discounted speculations that the damper originated from the United States, possibly from the manufacturers, Lockheed-Martin, who had contracted the sale of their end-of-the-line aircraft to Pakistan. India had objected to the sale offered in Larch last year but kept the opposition at
low level.

The issue was raised by Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz at Pentagon meeting with US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld during his recent trip to the United States. Aziz sought American facilitation in clinching the deal with its NATO allies. President Musharraf is likely to ask the American President to expedite the matter.

Informed sources say the latest thinking in Pakistani defence establishment favours acquisition of a mix of new and used but upgraded F-16 aircraft. Pakistan’s performance in tackling infiltration of resurgent Taliban and remnants of Al-Qaeda along its border with Afghanistan and the apparent US reluctance to provide more sophisticated weapons to Pakistani forces operating in the area, has also been a major source of argument and friction, says the English daily of Pakistan.

Perspective

The matter reportedly came for discussion during Mr. Aziz’s US visit and has been given new twist by President Bush’s pronouncements while embarking on his current South Asia trip and at his news conference in Kabul on March 1. He seemed concurring with the Afghan government’s persistent accusations
that 'Pakistan has to do more to block infiltration into Afghanistan'.

Pakistani officials have been complaining that the US has not done much to provide enough of night-vision devices, advanced Cobra gunship and precision weapons to enhance the strike power of nearly 80,000 troops deployed to combat incursions.

US diplomats claim that Pakistan is receiving a hefty amount every month (one of them put it at $86 million in a private interaction some time back), for the military operation in North and South Waziristan.

These payments are not reflected in budgetary allocations, though the Pakistani officials confirmed them with slight disagreement over figures.

This state of affairs, say informed sources, is one restraining factor in level of operations conducted by Pakistani troops which have suffered unprecedented casualties ever since the operation was launched more than a couple of years ago.

As such, on occasions, the Pakistani authorities pass on the intelligence to US counterparts across the border about presence of suspect infiltrators but are reluctant to undertake the operations themselves.•

http://pakistantimes.net/top3060602.htm
 
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Well i say lets go with the used F-16s for "actually" using them as a stop-gap measurement. It will cut the cost in half, will add a defensive punch, and will save us money for getting an advanced fighter type that we need. The combination of J-10 with JF-17 really makes sense whereas a combination of F-16 (becoming the backbone) witht he JF-17 doesn't make sense at all, since both are of the same type, and JF-17 was suppose to be a hold of F-16 during the time of sanctions.
 
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Originally posted by Zeeshan S.@Mar 7 2006, 12:51 AM
Well i say lets go with the used F-16s for "actually" using them as a stop-gap measurement. It will cut the cost in half, will add a defensive punch, and will save us money for getting an advanced fighter type that we need. The combination of J-10 with JF-17 really makes sense whereas a combination of F-16 (becoming the backbone) witht he JF-17 doesn't make sense at all, since both are of the same type, and JF-17 was suppose to be a hold of F-16 during the time of sanctions.
[post=6713]Quoted post[/post]​

110% agree :thumbsup: man!!!!!!!

I have already discussed this is my previous posts.
 
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Thank you. I dont know how much would the cost be for these used F-16s. If they are close to new F-16s than i believe we shouldn't go for them rather we should induct another low cost aircraft J-9?

Or just go with the J-10s. Though i highly suggest fighter specifically made for ground attack for replacing A-5s.
 
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Originally posted by Zeeshan S.@Mar 8 2006, 11:00 PM
Thank you. I dont know how much would the cost be for these used F-16s. If they are close to new F-16s than i believe we shouldn't go for them rather we should induct another low cost aircraft J-9?

Or just go with the J-10s. Though i highly suggest fighter specifically made for ground attack for replacing A-5s.
[post=6864]Quoted post[/post]​

Second hand F-16s being negotiated with Belgium and Netherlands will be given MLU which will bring them atleast to the standard of Block 50. Add to that the new F-16s (Block 52) that our airforce will buy and there you have a solid offensive punch. J-9 is nowhere close to that and will be a waste of money just as F-7s (Mig-21s) were. Upgrades like P and PG didn't really add a lot to the basic aircraft.

You are right, A-5s should definitely be replaced by specific ground-attack AC. Perhaps a Jf-17 ground attack version is on the table or an entirely different AC? Who knows! PAF is being so secretive about everything that its even hard to speculate.
 
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So you think F-16 with MLU(Block 50) would have BVR. I know one thing that they are going to remove the facilities, avionics and hard points to carry Nuclear weapons, but what about BVR and radar?

I would'nt go for J9 either.
 
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Originally posted by Sid@Mar 9 2006, 07:41 AM
You are right, A-5s should definitely be replaced by specific ground-attack AC. Perhaps a Jf-17 ground attack version is on the table or an entirely different AC? Who knows! PAF is being so secretive about everything that its even hard to speculate.
[post=6866]Quoted post[/post]​
The Fanatan was a waste of money in the first place, the type is obsolete and lacks modern avionics.
We should have gone for mirage F-1C or Mirage-5NG in the eighties when they were offered. Both could have been dilivered in FGA role.

Now the JF-17 would need more hardpoints to become a dedicated FGA, would require higher MTOW.
Maybe one of the eitght protoypes, probably a twoseater would have the capability.
Secrecy arround the project sometime is really annoying... :wall:
 
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Originally posted by melb4aust@Mar 9 2006, 03:44 AM
So you think F-16 with MLU(Block 50) would have BVR. I know one thing that they are going to remove the facilities, avionics and hard points to carry Nuclear weapons, but what about BVR and radar?

I would'nt go for J9 either.
[post=6869]Quoted post[/post]​

Where did you get that from? PAF F-16s would receive the standard MLU which means they will be BVR and all other techs go with it. NOTHING will be removed from them; rather added on. If US wanted to provide F-16s without any advanced techs on board, they wouldn't have allowed Block 52s to be offerend in the first place.

Pakistan should however ask for the AESA radar from the US.
 
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Im not sure about the BVR, and thats what i was asking for, but im sure about the nuclear delivery system which they are going to remove and i read that in "The News" pakistani paper, a weblink on the internet.
 
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I don't think I can use more 'simpler' english that I used my friend. NOTHING IS GOING TO BE TAKEN OUT. Would you rather believe THE NEWS or some of the credible military websites and publications out there? An MLU updrage would be done as is 'standard' which means they will be brought up to Block 50 standard with ALL TECHS ON BOARD.

If the US wanted to deprive Pakistan of 'techs' it wouldn't have offered F-16s in the first place or opened negotiations for the AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles which are BVR!!
 
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Sid I agree with what you are saying but would like to discuss the following line in your reply.

Its sad to see such comments coming from you 'melb4aust'.

This sounds like a personal attack. It might not be one but I felt it was a bit personal. Remember the whole purpose of the forum is to share information and debate on points.

I think we should help & support each other to understand things if they are not clear.

No offence meant just my two cents
 
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Its alright guys, He said what was in his mind.

But im pretty much sure i read that some where on the web, i did try to locate it but couldnt find it yet. I would be more tan happy if those F-16's come with the nuclear delivery system. Cheers
 
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It wasn't meant to be a personal attack but just a piece of my mind after getting used to much better posts from melb4aust. Anyhow, I do think I should've PMed him that line. My bad at that.
 
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No worries guys. The purpose is to promote and maintain healthy debates.

Both of you are valuable members of this forum and I respect & admire the way you present your view points.
 
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Well, what i think now is that PAF wants to get about 100+ and also PAF announced that Rafale and Typhoon are also its candidates and PAF is interested to get about 25+ Typhoons or Rafale so i think 100+ F-16s are not realy confirmed or needed but if we get them and PAF is also intrested in J-10 may be it can get about 50+ and with 150 to 200 JF-17s. I think untill 2010 PAF is in very good shape.
 
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