Pakistan negotiating F-16 deal with

[melb4aust]

Originally posted by Khan@Mar 13 2006, 10:59 PM
No worries guys. The purpose is to promote and maintain healthy debates.

Both of you are valuable members of this forum and I respect & admire the way you present your view points.

[post=6997]Quoted post[/post]​

Thanx buddy :thumbsup:

 

[SyedK]

Originally posted by Sid@Mar 9 2006, 11:50 PM
Where did you get that from? PAF F-16s would receive the standard MLU which means they will be BVR and all other techs go with it. NOTHING will be removed from them; rather added on. If US wanted to provide F-16s without any advanced techs on board, they wouldn't have allowed Block 52s to be offerend in the first place.

Pakistan should however ask for the AESA radar from the US.

[post=6886]Quoted post[/post]​

AESA radar? I dont think U.S would trust Pakistan in that, the tech will be transfered to Chinese for equipping a similar radar in JF-17 unless a document is signed against it. I would suggest getting an another type with AESA radar than the Block 50s.

 

[Thunder]

Originally posted by melb4aust@Mar 11 2006, 09:03 AM
Its alright guys, He said what was in his mind.

But im pretty much sure i read that some where on the web, i did try to locate it but couldnt find it yet. I would be more tan happy if those F-16's come with the nuclear delivery system. Cheers

[post=6937]Quoted post[/post]​

I think that it will come with nuke delivery system since we are reconized as a nucler power. But if it does'nt, then we will have to upgrade them like we did to our F-16s back in 2002

 

[Neo]

Originally posted by Thunder@Mar 15 2006, 09:23 PM
I think that it will come with nuke delivery system since we are reconized as a nucler power. But if it does'nt, then we will have to upgrade them like we did to our F-16s back in 2002

[post=7096]Quoted post[/post]​

No Thunder,
We have demonstrated our nuclear capability but we're not a recoginsed nuclear power yet, neither is India.

Block 50 Falcons will probably be delivered with nuke dilivery system or the deal is a No Go for PAF.
Remeber that IAF received Mirage 2000's and Su-30MKI with the same without any objections from the US.

 

[Sid]

I remember reading about these F-16s that PAF will order and it said that avionics and other items would be suited to PAF requirements. So I just HOPE they insist on AESA and AMRAAMs.

 

[RAPTOR]

Pakistan asked for the AESA radar, but Lockheed Martin made it clear that for the AESA, PAF will have to buy the block 60 F-16. That might pose a problem because it is far more expensive and it uses a GE engine instead of the Pratt & whitney which Pakistan uses in its older F-16s....thus making maintance an issue with 2 different engine types.

 

[Sid]

Please provide a link or reference to back that claim up because current information suggests that AESA has not been so far asked for. I don't think Lockheed is interested in selling Block 60 to any country because if it does, it has to pay a hefty royalty to the UAE as the Block 60 R & D was funded by them and they have rights over the sale of that particular F-16 type.

 

[Zeeshan S.]

Sid dont you think UAE allow Pakistan for that in this case? Also what R & D are you talking about? There wasn't much to research and develop. The Block 60 isn't totally a different fighter you know, its very similar to Block 50 but is up with the requirements of UAE, which was to have a longer range, and better avionics.

If Pakistan requests UAE fly by it, it will do it and then Lockheed will have no problem.

 

[Sid]

It is known that R & D was carried out for the 'better' avionics that you talk of and some other features which I will research and post. Of course it isn't a totally different aircraft from Block 50/52 but it is quite ahead in technological terms. So that R & D was paid for by UAE and is therefore, liable to a royalty should LM conclude a deal with another country for the supply of such fighter jets.

Whether Pakistan would get the nod from UAE is open for debate but the royalties from LM to UAE would have to commence; no doubt about that.

 

[RAPTOR]

Regarding the Block60 E/F , i suggest you do a little more research on what was offered to Pakistan by Lockheed Martin in 2005....and what PAF is asking for now, which is the AESA radar. Lockheed is not interested in selling that package with the Block 52 C/D .

And regarding the UAE , yeah the Block 60 was customized and developed for them and a lot of the technology was given to Israel in the Block52 SUFA's. Im not quite sure what the big issue with the "royalties" would be if PAF decided to go with the Block 60.. due to the radar and other features they want.

 

[Neo]

Still I would appreciate to have the link to support the claim.

To me it seems unlikely the US would offer such a high tech model like Block 60 with Aesa radar due fears that China might want to look at it.
Remember that even the F-18E/F Super Hornet was not offered wich is a much later and more advanced design than the Block 50 Falcon.

Sid,
Do you think its feaseable to operate a mixture of Block 50 and 60 (or 70 if offered to PAF as Block 60 is UAE specific)?
One or two batches of latest block would really boost our capability and we'll finally have something to counter the IAF Su-30MKI.
Just a thought...

 

[Sid]

Yes it is feasible to operate F-16s from different Blocks because the basic logistics remain the same and so it does not put a lot of pressure on the finances or the logistical capabilities of the PAF.

SATAN: The Israelis bought their F-16s before UAE did, so UAE has more chances of newer things than the Israelis. Before questioning my research I'd suggest you do yours. The Israelis could care less for American avionics and other items inside the aircraft as it is well known that as soon as the jets reach Israel, they take the American items out and fit them with their own (which are said to be 'very' capable).

The issue with royalties is that why would LM want to offer Pakistan, UAE's Block 60s on which it has to pay 5-10% of the profits to UAE when IF it is willing offer anything Pakistan requires, it could simply offer to build a newer Block customized to PAF's requirements thereby saving the payment of royalties to UAE.

 

[RAPTOR]

Well Sid, i was just quoting Kohler when he was in Pakistan in 2005 to discuss the sale, according to him, both the Block60 and 52 were being offered. The only issue was the price. Then the indians wanted the AESA radar in the proposed F-18 E/F sale so obviously PAF has to have something similar if not superior to counter the bugs. So lets see what comes out of the negotiations and what is actually offered in the F-16 package.

However recent statements by Musharaf suggest hes looking at the Block60 and J-10. What he wants is to be compensated for the india/us nuclear deal and wishes the F-16s to be sold under concessional rates within the MNNA framework.

But in all fairness, lets see what occurs in the next few months.

 

[Bull]

Originally posted by SATAN@Mar 19 2006, 01:33 PM
Regarding the Block60 E/F , i suggest you do a little more research on what was offered to Pakistan by Lockheed Martin in 2005....and what PAF is asking for now, which is the AESA radar. Lockheed is not interested in selling that package with the Block 52 C/D .

And regarding the UAE , yeah the Block 60 was customized and developed for them and a lot of the technology was given to Israel in the Block52 SUFA's. Im not quite sure what the big issue with the "royalties" would be if PAF decided to go with the Block 60.. due to the radar and other features they want.

[post=7294]Quoted post[/post]​

i think LM is not interetsed in selling AESA with any blocks, there was no news article which showed this.

 

[master_fx]

Originally posted by Zeeshan S.@Mar 9 2006, 04:00 AM
Thank you. I dont know how much would the cost be for these used F-16s. If they are close to new F-16s than i believe we shouldn't go for them rather we should induct another low cost aircraft J-9?

Or just go with the J-10s. Though i highly suggest fighter specifically made for ground attack for replacing A-5s.

[post=6864]Quoted post[/post]​

no.... j-10 is not specifically made for ground attack is for multi-role....... and its main goal is to counter taiwan's f-16s.......

so far only A-5 and jh-7 are specifically made for grounp attack missions........ however A-5 is 2 old and jh-7 has 2 much problems with the air frame and the engines.........