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Pakistan needs serious soul searching

Ace of Spades

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Pakistan’s institutes needs a serious soul searching and where their policies are bringing Pakistan and her 220+ million population. This is not an army bashing, establishment bashing thread. So please, whoever is here to take chat masala out of here please leave and do not contribute with agenda driven input. You, however, can give educated rebuttal and different opinion and it’s very welcomed.

Now to the topic, Pakistan since inception has been treated by elites as their Jageer. Let it be politicians, bureaucrats, army, establishment, judiciary etc. And the blame doesn’t fall on the institutes but on individuals. This, however, doesn't discount that onus doesn’t lie with institutes as they repeatedly failed to call out such black sheep from with in due to “paiti para” mentality coupled with tribal, ethnic, religious affiliations. (with some exceptions sometimes but that’s like grain of salt in the sea). This tribalism has brought Pakistan down to worse than least developed countries, have driven the populace towards extremist ideologies and what not.

Any institute when something/someone goes rouge from with in, instead of calling out the culprit; goes in to “paiti para” “tribalism” mentality. And this gives malicious agenda driven outlets a golden opportunity for their propaganda. As a consequence all of incident is painted ,sometimes rightly so, with the general stroke of of anti-Pakistan, anti-state colour, anti-judiciary, anti-democracy etc.

Where is it going wrong? As they say, Kuj shehar da log vi zalam san, kuj sanu maran da shok vi si.

A judge does something wrong; first judiciary doesn't do anything about it to single out the culpirit and when reaction comes it’s painted as an attack on judiciary. Same goes for journalists, army, intelligence, politicians, bureaucrats, lawyers and the list goes on.

Having said that, I am not implying that there are always stand alone incidents or incidents without malicious intent. There are always agenda driven individuals/powers trying to destabilize institutes or trying to give bad reputation or name. The question to ask is then how would you separate the two. This is more like the story of "shair aya shair aya", when you keep doing the mantra of isi involved in everything, anti-democracy forces are in action or anti-pakistan, anti state for everything. There would be the time when there would be actually people who would be trying to do exactly that but no one would believe your mantra. There is still time to review the approach but with the influx of social media the narratives are easy to manipulate especially when there is a history of mistakes and blunders.

Please add on the discussion, your input would be very beneficial for the readers.

@Slav Defence @Foxtrot Alpha @PakSword @waz @HRK @The Eagle
 
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Pakistan’s institutes needs a serious soul searching and where their policies are bringing Pakistan and her 220+ million population. This is not an army bashing, establishment bashing thread. So please, whoever is here to take chat masala out of here please leave and do not contribute with agenda driven input. You, however, can give educated rebuttal and different opinion and it’s very welcomed.

Now to the topic, Pakistan since inception has been treated by elites as their Jageer. Let it be politicians, bureaucrats, army, establishment, judiciary etc. And the blame doesn’t fall on the institutes but on individuals. This, however, doesn't discount that onus doesn’t lie with institutes as they repeatedly failed to call out such black sheep from with in due to “paiti para” mentality coupled with tribal, ethnic, religious affiliations. (with some exceptions sometimes but that’s like grain of salt in the sea). This tribalism has brought Pakistan down to worse than least developed countries, have driven the populace towards extremist ideologies and what not.

Any institute when something/someone goes rouge from with in, instead of calling out the culprit; goes in to “paiti para” “tribalism” mentality. And this gives malicious agenda driven outlets a golden opportunity for their propaganda. As a consequence all of incident is painted ,sometimes rightly so, with the general stroke of of anti-Pakistan, anti-state colour, anti-judiciary, anti-democracy etc.

Where is it going wrong? As they say, Kuj shehar da log vi zalam san, kuj sanu maran da shok vi si.

A judge does something wrong; first judiciary doesn't do anything about it to single out the culpirit and when reaction comes it’s painted as an attack on judiciary. Same goes for journalists, army, intelligence, politicians, bureaucrats, lawyers and the list goes on.

Having said that, I am not implying that there are always stand alone incidents or incidents without malicious intent. There are always agenda driven individuals/powers trying to destabilize institutes or trying to give bad reputation or name. The question to ask is then how would you separate the two. This is more like the story of "shair aya shair aya", when you keep doing the mantra of isi involved in everything, anti-democracy forces are in action or anti-pakistan, anti state for everything. There would be the time when there would be actually people who would be trying to do exactly that but no one would believe your mantra. There is still time to review the approach but with the influx of social media the narratives are easy to manipulate especially when there is a history of mistakes and blunders.

Please add on the discussion, your input would be very beneficial for the readers.

@Slav Defence @Foxtrot Alpha @PakSword @waz @HRK @The Eagle
The reason is not the fault of any one individual or institution or the political class. Ultimately the fault is within the wider Pakistani society - although using the word society is not the right fit here as it suggests one unified group.

The problem is within the 220 million. They are not a society like for instance Russians or Turks. Instead we have dozens of societies all living in the geographic space called Pakistan. Thus think of lots of mobs all pushing and shoving against each other. Forming alliances to get a edge on others.

There is no single core group in Pakistan that forms the consensus. Probably the closest thing is the military. Was it not for the military Pakistan would have long ago cracked along the dozen fissures it has. Think of Afghanistan. The defining differance between Afghanistan and Pakistan is the military has a modern institution was germinated by the British from 1880s onwards and which over the decades has consolidated to become the backbone of the state.

Take it out and Pakistan would fall apart along tribal, ethnic, clan, sectarin etc fissures.
 
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The reason is not the fault of any one individual or institution or the political class. Ultimately the fault is within the wider Pakistani society - although using the word society is not the right fit here as it suggests one unified group.

The problem is within the 220 million. They are not a society like for instance Russians or Turks. Instead we have dozens of societies all living in the geographic space called Islam. Thus think of lots of mobs all pushing and shoving against each other. Forming alliances to get a edge on others.

There is no single core group in Pakistan that forms the consensus. Probably the closest thing is the military. Was it not for the military Pakistan would have long ago cracked along the dozen fissures it has. Think of Afghanistan. The defining differance between Afghanistan and Pakistan is the military has a modern institution was germinated by the British from 1880s onwards and which over the decades has consolidated to become the backbone of the state.

Take it out and Pakistan would fall apart along tribal, ethnic, clan, sectarin etc fissures.

Same goes for societies like US and Canada etc who have multi-ethnic, religious, and lingual societies. However, when institutes are working as they should and call out the culprits, the society continues to thrive despite all the noise. That's where Pakistan is not at currently. Having homogenous society would be an easy way out but diversity doesn't mean that it's deemed to doom. We have to deal with what we have got, and Pakistan needs to find a way out of this vicious circle.
 
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Same goes for societies like US and Canada etc who have multi-ethnic, religious, and lingual societies
Your ignoring some facts about those countries. The core group and the cluster that forms the consensus around which these countries are built have existed since formation of those countries. For instance USA is product of Anglo-Saxon founding fathers who planted a seed and for long time it was the only group within USA. It informed the language, culture, historical trajectory. As time went on millions of other migrants arrived from Europe but these ALWAYS clustered around the orginal founding group - the Anglo-Saxons. So maybe the new migrants spoke German, Swedish, Russian, Italian but they were co-opted into the founding group. Within a few generations they had assimiliated into the dominant Anglo-Saxon group and some joined the ruling elite. There was some resistence against Catholics and Jews but over time they also gelled around the core Anglo-Saxon group. It must be kept in mind the constitution of USA is largely a Anglo-Saxon construct that has been modifed over the centuries.
 
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I think it's too late, The nation itself is in decline and dying a slow death poisoned by many toxics which are rampant in the society.

“We were the most humiliated people on earth and God gave us honour through Islam. If we ever seek honour through anything else, God will humiliate us again.”
― Umar ibn Al-Khattab

And he sure did...:(
 
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I think it's too late, The nation itself is in decline and dying a slow death poisoned by many toxics which are rampant in the society.
So in your opinion there is no redemption for Pakistan now...?
 
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So in your opinion there is no redemption for Pakistan now...?

There is, but the Question is do we have Will to act on it? as SQ8 said mass repentance to Allah. Only he has the power to change the fate of our Nation.
 
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Education and mandatory national service when combined together can solve problems of our country not all but quite a lot.

Every tinpot ruler kicked the can down the road for Pakistan. Now those problems have grown into Resident evil bosses(google it).

Holistic measures will have to be thought out and implemented. We would need an Ataturk/Erdoğan/Putin/Netanyahu without all the mosque closing, hijab banning and wear the fedora or I kill you typa stuff.
 
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There is, but the Question is do we have Will to act on it? as SQ8 said mass repentance to Allah. Only he has the power to change the fate of our Nation.
Well don’t you think a Muslim majority Country know that at least, in every Jinnah prayers the masajids are full of namazis...?
 
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Well don’t you think a Muslim majority Country know that at least, in every Jinnah prayers the masajids are full of namazis...?

If they knew then Muslims wouldn't be divided as they are today, or in the Financial and Morally bankrupt as we are. Apologies are accepted when they done by heart with a commitment of never to do it again, our namazi wants to be in the first row, right behind the Imam but as soon as they leave Masjid they are in the lead to do all kinds of Haramkhori's. Pakistan's Dirt Poor is Thieve, Pakistan Rich is Thieve and Middle Class those who get Chance do their part and those who don't still waiting for it. Yes, there are some good People but remember this when Allah chose to decimate a nation then he only saves a handful of those he wants to but the silent majority goes down with the Chor and Daku's who are in their own mist of Power. May Allah Grant the highest Position of Jannat to the man who right before his departure from Earth took one Promise from Allah to not destroy his nation like previous nations or else, we are worse than the nation of Loot and Paroh.
 
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If they knew then Muslims wouldn't be divided as they are today, or in the Financial and Morally bankrupt as we are. Apologies are accepted when they done by heart with a commitment of never to do it again, our namazi wants to be in the first row, right behind the Imam but as soon as they leave Masjid they are in the lead to do all kinds of Haramkhori's. Pakistan's Dirt Poor is Thieve, Pakistan Rich is Thieve and Middle Class those who get Chance do their part and those who don't still waiting for it. Yes, there are some good People but remember this when Allah chose to decimate a nation then he only saves a handful of those he wants to but the silent majority goes down with the Chor and Daku's who are in their own mist of Power. May Allah Grant the highest Position of Jannat to the man who right before his departure from Earth took one Promise from Allah to not destroy his nation like previous nations or else, we are worse than the nation of Loot and Paroh.
You should listen to this short clip of Dr. Sahib and let me know your thoughts...

 
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Pakistanis are financially and morally corrupt. From Poor to the richest in the country. Rich is corrupt by choice and poor by compulsion. At every step in this country, you will find proper dhokebaaz and lair. Unless we change ourselves, Allah swt is not going to change our country's destiny. It's too late.
 
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Pakistan’s institutes needs a serious soul searching and where their policies are bringing Pakistan and her 220+ million population. This is not an army bashing, establishment bashing thread. So please, whoever is here to take chat masala out of here please leave and do not contribute with agenda driven input. You, however, can give educated rebuttal and different opinion and it’s very welcomed.

Now to the topic, Pakistan since inception has been treated by elites as their Jageer. Let it be politicians, bureaucrats, army, establishment, judiciary etc. And the blame doesn’t fall on the institutes but on individuals. This, however, doesn't discount that onus doesn’t lie with institutes as they repeatedly failed to call out such black sheep from with in due to “paiti para” mentality coupled with tribal, ethnic, religious affiliations. (with some exceptions sometimes but that’s like grain of salt in the sea). This tribalism has brought Pakistan down to worse than least developed countries, have driven the populace towards extremist ideologies and what not.

Any institute when something/someone goes rouge from with in, instead of calling out the culprit; goes in to “paiti para” “tribalism” mentality. And this gives malicious agenda driven outlets a golden opportunity for their propaganda. As a consequence all of incident is painted ,sometimes rightly so, with the general stroke of of anti-Pakistan, anti-state colour, anti-judiciary, anti-democracy etc.

Where is it going wrong? As they say, Kuj shehar da log vi zalam san, kuj sanu maran da shok vi si.

A judge does something wrong; first judiciary doesn't do anything about it to single out the culpirit and when reaction comes it’s painted as an attack on judiciary. Same goes for journalists, army, intelligence, politicians, bureaucrats, lawyers and the list goes on.

Having said that, I am not implying that there are always stand alone incidents or incidents without malicious intent. There are always agenda driven individuals/powers trying to destabilize institutes or trying to give bad reputation or name. The question to ask is then how would you separate the two. This is more like the story of "shair aya shair aya", when you keep doing the mantra of isi involved in everything, anti-democracy forces are in action or anti-pakistan, anti state for everything. There would be the time when there would be actually people who would be trying to do exactly that but no one would believe your mantra. There is still time to review the approach but with the influx of social media the narratives are easy to manipulate especially when there is a history of mistakes and blunders.

Please add on the discussion, your input would be very beneficial for the readers.

@Slav Defence @Foxtrot Alpha @PakSword @waz @HRK @The Eagle

Pakistan as a country has one of the best survival rate going ahead lest predestined war with India over the Indus.
 
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Pakistan as a country has one of the best survival rate going ahead lest predestined war with India over the Indus.
How would Pak react if we make a water diverting dam on the Indus with all our covid murdas ?
 
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