Pakistan nearing assembly stage of S20 submarine

[Arsalan]

New Submarine base to be built in Balochistan....so Karachi won't have to face any congestion issues.

Actually he was not referring to congestion. The point was we may be looking for a Submarine Tender/Submarine support ship like Type 925 Submarine support ship. Currently we do not operate a proper submarine support platform, the fleet support vessel fill in but with with number of submarines increasing it will make sense if we build or buy at least one submarine support ship equipped with DSRV in case of any accident.

Yes, Only ONE dry dock will be spared for submarine construction at KSEW.
However, ONE more dry dock at Dockyard can also be made available for submarine construction if required (the one where 90B's were built, and has has all the facilities as well).
This is the present state of docks, which can be increased in a short period of time if required.

The time frame for construction can only be given by the Director Project and that too when the project is initiated. So we will have to wait and see. Any other time frame is just speculation based on general knowledge,.

so essentially what we are all in agreement with, with ONLY two dock at KSEW and from which ONE is most likely to be spared for new construction of submarine, it is safe to assume that KSEW will work on one submarine at a time, if and when it does start the project. Also apart from the production facility or the dry docks, additional of which you said can be set up in relatively shorter time, there will be the matter of trained staff and FINANCE. So considering all this, we will be making one sub at a time for now.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Actually he was not referring to congestion. The point was we may be looking for a Submarine Tender/Submarine support ship like Type 925 Submarine support ship. Currently we do not operate a proper submarine support platform, the fleet support vessel fill in but with with number of submarines increasing it will make sense if we build or buy at least one submarine support ship equipped with DSRV in case of any accident.


so essentially what we are all in agreement with, with ONLY two dock at KSEW and from which ONE is most likely to be spared for new construction of submarine, it is safe to assume that KSEW will work on one submarine at a time, if and when it does start the project. Also apart from the production facility or the dry docks, additional of which you said can be set up in relatively shorter time, there will be the matter of trained staff and FINANCE. So considering all this, we will be making one sub at a time for now.

Yes, one Sub at a time in the start, which MAY be increased to 2 subs after completion of the 3rd & 4th.
Still this is speculation and we will have to wait for the project to start.

 

[Arsalan]

Yes, one Sub at a time in the start, which MAY be increased to 2 subs after completion of the 3rd & 4th.
Still this is speculation and we will have to wait for the project to start.

Absolutely true. Also THIS 3rd and 4th sub will take YEARS to get into production, specially since we have no news whatsoever about work on first one started or anything!

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

@Arsalan

Sir, There are 2 places where subs can be produced:
One dry dock will be spared for submarine construction at KSEW and the other dry dock at Dockyard. However there is a plan to increase the dock's so that a speedy construction can be attained due to the requirements. Currently the docks in KSEW are being used to construct a Fleet Tanker and a Fast Attack boat.

Sorry for not replying earlier due to finding an appropriate source, along with the e-mail of the author. In case you would require further proof...

Pakistan Seeks To Energize Naval Modernization

 

[Arsalan]

@Arsalan

Sir, There are 2 places where subs can be produced:
One dry dock will be spared for submarine construction at KSEW and the other dry dock at Dockyard. However there is a plan to increase the dock's so that a speedy construction can be attained due to the requirements. Currently the docks in KSEW are being used to construct a Fleet Tanker and a Fast Attack boat.

Sorry for not replying earlier due to finding an appropriate source, along with the e-mail of the author. In case you would require further proof...

Pakistan Seeks To Energize Naval Modernization

No brother, if you check the last few page, you MAY notice why actually i asked you for all these question. Perhaps that will help you so no, no proof required, i have been there and seen that for myself.
My purpose was only to try and make you understand that while you were giving the timelines and figures/number of a dozen of submarines that we will induct and in which month we will induct, you had no idea about the actual number of dry docks at KSEW ( as you have stated that it was only now that you have checked with some SOURCE) so i was just politely trying to suggest that it is better that before making unrealistic claims it is always good to know the basics. I hope you understand what i am trying to say. Phr ap naraz hotay ho ka i asked if you were Nishan

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

No brother, if you check the last few page, you MAY notice why actually i asked you for all these question. Perhaps that will help you so no, no proof required, i have been there and seen that for myself.
My purpose was only to try and make you understand that while you were giving the timelines and figures/number of a dozen of submarines that we will induct and in which month we will induct, you had no idea about the actual number of dry docks at KSEW ( as you have stated that it was only now that you have checked with some SOURCE) so i was just politely trying to suggest that it is better that before making unrealistic claims it is always good to know the basics. I hope you understand what i am trying to say. Phr ap naraz hotay ho ka i asked if you were Nishan

Sir the Article states

" A 7,881-ton ship lift transfer system will be completed next year.

KSEW will expand to occupy facilities vacated by the Navy as it transfers from Karachi to Ormara. The Pakistan Navy Dockyard, which is adjacent to KSEW, already has facilities upgraded by the French during construction of Agosta-90B submarines.

Author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad Brian Cloughley said the groundwork laid by the Agosta-90B program that included upgrades to PN Dockyard facilities and the training of some 1,000 civilian technicians greatly facilitated present plans. "


Sir, do you think would there be an issue regarding Steal Production?

 

[Blue Marlin]

Although a little bit different what i know but still these figures wont back up the production being claimed in previous pages. Actually, there are two dry docks and three ship building berths, we are currently working on TWO surface ships (one Azmat Class boat and other a fleet tanker) AND, the two dry docks CANNOT be simultaneously used for new construction work, need to keep on for any repair/up gradation work AND, for God's sake we CANNOT build a submarine in 12 months, have a lok at F-22p timeline, Augusta submarine time line (sorry i am sounding bit like i am arguing with you but i am not, it was not you who was claiming these things.

Actually, i asked about the production facility as i though may be i do not know something that @ ACT OF THE AIR knows which made him quote the induction timeline and figures with some certainty. However apparently he did not knew about the production capability to begin with, don't know how can someone work out the number of subs KSEW will pop out in an year without knowing who many docks there are to work on a sub.


Sir you are also saying that out of THESE TWO docks one can be spared for the submarine construction project right? or are you saying we have an extra THIRD dock for this? AS far as i know, there are TWO.


Finally, someone who understand WHAT i was saying or trying in those last few posts. Everyone else was just answering and replying to the question to provide INFORMATION (not that i mind any of that, this is why i am here so have thanked them all). I hope all this effort was worth it and we have brought down the over ambitious production figures for the submarine project that we do not know anything about with certainty to begin with

to understand how quickly the subs can be produced look at the pns khalid and check how long that took to produce and then make you assumptions. but remember theses subs will be bigger.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

to understand how quickly the subs can be produced look at the pns khalid and check how long that took to produce and then make you assumptions. but remember theses subs will be bigger.

We cannot give that example because after the Sheraton hotel bomb blast which killed french engineers (2002), sub construction was stopped for a long time. It resumed late thus delaying the completion of the remaining subs.

 

[Blue Marlin]

now that you say it its would significantly reduce the time frame of production. a good estimated guess would be 36 months from cutting first steel to hand over to navy Karachi ship yard is a very reliable builder. this is because the navy is in charge and no corrupt politician would dare interfere in it's business. Karachi ship yard is small, but they know how to build a really good ships

 

[tarrar]

Good, I hope to see Nuclear subs soon.

 

[Arsalan]

to understand how quickly the subs can be produced look at the pns khalid and check how long that took to produce and then make you assumptions. but remember theses subs will be bigger.

exactly!!
and you can check that that was NOT is 12 months.
However we do need to count for the terrorist attack that delayed the program but still if we work out the days or check project of other countries it is no rocket science to find that it will take two to two and a half year from steel cutting to completion. then there are month long trails and what not. In nut shell, what i am trying to say that it is not that we will be building two subs a year and inducting about a dozen in tree four year. this project (mind you which have not STARTED as yet) will take time,

Sir the Article states

" A 7,881-ton ship lift transfer system will be completed next year.

KSEW will expand to occupy facilities vacated by the Navy as it transfers from Karachi to Ormara. The Pakistan Navy Dockyard, which is adjacent to KSEW, already has facilities upgraded by the French during construction of Agosta-90B submarines.

Author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad Brian Cloughley said the groundwork laid by the Agosta-90B program that included upgrades to PN Dockyard facilities and the training of some 1,000 civilian technicians greatly facilitated present plans. "


Sir, do you think would there be an issue regarding Steal Production?

it is a ship lift transfer sir. and this is the same upgraded dockyard upgraded by French that we are already counting.

 

[Blue Marlin]

exactly!!
and you can check that that was NOT is 12 months.
However we do need to count for the terrorist attack that delayed the program but still if we work out the days or check project of other countries it is no rocket science to find that it will take two to two and a half year from steel cutting to completion. then there are month long trails and what not. In nut shell, what i am trying to say that it is not that we will be building two subs a year and inducting about a dozen in tree four year. this project (mind you which have not STARTED as yet) will take time,


it is a ship lift transfer sir. and this is the same upgraded dockyard upgraded by French that we are already counting.

actually it was not a terrorist attack that killed the french engineers. pak intelligence killed them and blamed terrorists. why France failed to pay the "commission" in order to get the contract for 3 subs so revenge was in order. online its called the 'agusta scandal'

 

[Humble Analyst]

actually it was not a terrorist attack that killed the french engineers. pak intelligence killed them and blamed terrorists. why France failed to pay the "commission" in order to get the contract for 3 subs so revenge was in order. online its called the 'agusta scandal'

Absurd statement, were you involved so you are so confident about the statement?

 

[Blue Marlin]

Absurd statement, were you involved so you are so confident about the statement?

this is one of may proof
'Bribes and bombs' scandal returns to haunt Sarkozy - Europe - World - The Independent
Agosta Submarine Scandal

 

[Arsalan]

actually it was not a terrorist attack that killed the french engineers. pak intelligence killed them and blamed terrorists. why France failed to pay the "commission" in order to get the contract for 3 subs so revenge was in order. online its called the 'agusta scandal'

well that is a conspiracy theory and we can have a lot more like that so best stick with the official version since that is NOT what we are discussion here.