Pakistan Navy Commissions new Naval Base PNS HAMEED

[war&peace]

New systems, plus new AIP module.

Sir
Agosta already have MESMA AIP so what's the difference with new ones?

 

[Khafee]

Sir
Agosta already have MESMA AIP so what's the difference with new ones?

Longer endurance.

Pic Published on 20th Oct 2016

http://dailytimes.com.pk/sindh/20-O...ver-operational-preparedness-of-pakistan-navy

 

[Khafee]

That's a confirmation beyond doubt
@Khafee @Penguin @Indus Falcon

There was more:

Ahmed said Pakistan likely will deploy a nuclear-armed, sub-launched variant of Babur “during the next decade.”
http://www.defensenews.com/articles...16.16&utm_term=Editorial - Daily News Roundup

 

[war&peace]

There was more:

Ahmed said Pakistan likely will deploy a nuclear-armed, sub-launched variant of Babur “during the next decade.”
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/pakistan-unveils-vlf-submarine-communications-facility?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DNR DFN 11.16.16&utm_term=Editorial - Daily News Roundup

Sir I think Ahmed is wrong on the timeline. Since most of these experts are not privy to secret info..However I'm sure PNS has already integrated Babur CM into its existing submarines through the torpedo tubes. However I'm not sure about SLBM capabilities. But I think the work is going on in parallel and the new S20 submarines will come equipped with SLBM capability. Two of the eight submarines may either come fitted with a npp or will be fitted with the indigenously developed npp. But this is just my analysis comprised of some internet based info and some info from sources

 

[Khafee]

Sir I think Ahmed is wrong on the timeline. Since most of these experts are not privy to secret info..However I'm sure PNS has already integrated Babur CM into its existing submarines through the torpedo tubes. However I'm not sure about SLBM capabilities. But I think the work is going on in parallel and the new S20 submarines will come equipped with SLBM capability. Two of the eight submarines may either come fitted with a npp or will be fitted with the indigenously developed npp. But this is just my analysis comprised of some internet based info and some info from sources

Exactly, It's like asking a doctor at the beginning of the pregnancy, when is the baby due, and he replies after nine months.

Part of the integration process is successful launches and hits, If the tests are conclusive, then that particular capability has been achieved.

Well for SLBM, lets wait till a suitable delivery platform arrives.

Hope you caught my drift.
*************************************************************************************

@war&peace How did you manage to do this?

 

[mdcp]

Map?

 

[Penguin]

As @Khafee said you should rather stick to wikipedia. Prior to May 28, people like you were in doubt whether Pakistan had a working nuke or not and Pak proved them wrong in 15 days... not a long time by any measure or scale.

Sure. I have never doubted Pakistan's possession of a working nuke (and challenge you to quote me to to proove your claim). Here again you present another case of attacking the person rather than discussing the message. Perhaps you can put aside your pride for a second (and not feel attacked) and look at the text that was posted. You don't have to agree to my interpretation of that text. But if you were mature, you would at least acknowledge that your interpretation isn't the only possible one.

 

[Penguin]

PN launched a missile from a sub, it goes way inland, and sends its target to oblivion. Indian media screams that a Harpoon has been modified, US personnel fly ASAP to check inventory. Turns out all the Harpoons are all accounted for.

Here is the confirmation I got today: 8 Chinese subs + 3 Agosta's will have SLCM capability. NO two ways about it.

Really?

The incident you are referring to occurred in 2009. Consider:

The Harpoon uses active radar homing to detect and track enemy vessels. Inertial navigation is used until the missile reaches the target area.* Over time the guidance has been improved by adding a re-attack capability, GPS aided inertial navigation and a two way data link in the latest versions. The Harpoon also possesses a very limited land attack capability:

Boeing Harpoon Block II Missile Successfully Attacks Land Target (8-8-2001)
The U.S. Navy yesterday successfully tested the new Harpoon Block II missile against a land target on San Nicolas Island at the Naval Air Warfare Center-Weapons Division sea range off Pt. Mugu, Calif.
This was the first time the missile was employed against a land target. The missile demonstrated its coastal target suppression capabilities by scoring a direct hit on a simulated SA-20 Mobile Radar Van. One of the many new capabilities of the Block II Harpoon is its ability to use its GPS-aided navigation to fly precisely to pre-launch programmed target coordinates.
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2001-08...k-II-Missile-Successfully-Attacks-Land-Target

*:After launch, the missile is guided towards the target location as determined by the launching aircraft or ship by a three-axis Attitude Reference Assembly (ATA) in an AN/DSQ-44 guidance section. The ATA is less accurate than a full-fledged inertial system, but good enough for Harpoon's range.
In 1985 the Block 1C version of Harpoon was introduced, being designated AGM-84D, RGM-84D and UGM-84D. Vessels equipped with the improved AN/SWG-1A Fire Control System can program several way-points into the flight path of the missile before launch. Using this feature, the RGM-84D will fly an indirect path to the target area.
As early as 1996, McDonnell Douglas proposed the "Harpoon 2000" improvement, later evolving into the Harpoon Block II. Suggested Block II features included a GPS-aided INS, a radar seeker with improved ECCM and some SLAM hardware. The GPS/INS guidance would allow much higher precision in attacks on shore-based targets. The "Harpoon 2000"/Block II proposal was apparently not too well received by the U.S. Navy, and no development order came forward. However, Block II was developed for export as AGM/RGM-84L, q.v.. In February 2008, the designations AGM-84J and RGM-84J were retroactively allocated to Block II conversions based on the AGM-84D.
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-84.html

Sipri's general trade register shows that US delivered 50 RGM-84L Harpoon-2 Anti-ship MI/SSM to Pakistan in 2006-2007 (ordered 2005) in a $63 million deal. This was followed by a deal for another delivery of 10 RGM-84L Harpoon-2 Anti-ship MI/SSM in 2009 (ordered 2007), worth $16 m deal; for P-3C ASW aircraft.
For Exocet, only the MM40 Block 3 missile accepts GPS guidance system waypoint commands, which allow it to attack naval targets from different angles and to strike land targets, giving it a marginal role as a land-attack missile. Pakistan does not have this.
Sipri's general trade register shows France delivered 25 SM-39 Exocet sub-launch Anti-ship missile in 1999-2006 (ordered 1994) in a $100 m deal for the Agosta-90B (Khalid) submarines
http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/trade_register.php

• As I have indicated multiple time in multiple thread, I expect tube launched SLCM to become PNs nuclear capability, rather than submarine cruisemissile VLS or slo launched ballistic missile.
• There is no doubt that all of the Pakistan Navy's submarines have been equipped with Anti-ship missile (AShM) which can be fired while submerged. In principle, any submarine with tubes for heavyweight torpedoes can perform encapsulated missile launch. That is also not the issue.
• The issue is whether an encapsulated launch version of Babur (or another domestically developed land attack missile**) has been developed (with associated on board fire control console), whether it fits the 533mm tubes of PNs current boats and whether it is currently operational on the 5 conventional SSKs of the PN.

** I'm not ruling that possibily out, just note there is little to no evidence of it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/30/world/asia/30missile.html​

Haters still gonna hate, still gonna burn, and no one will give a rats behind.

Sure. Shout that anytime someone has an opinion different from your own. That is very mature.
The only one that is displaying signs of hate here is you yourself.

The article did not mention about 3 Agosta 90-Bs which are by no means out dated. Furthermore, these subs are getting upgraded with new systems by STM...details of which we are not completely known nor we are really bothered as long as we know and believe these are aimed at augmenting their nuclear strike capabilities.

"The Babur is similar to the United States' BGM-109 Tomahawk and has long been speculated to be modified for launch by Pakistan’s three French-designed Agosta 90B submarines, thereby offering the shortest route to a second-strike capability."
Source: https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-navy-commissions-new-naval-base-pns-hameed.461155/#ixzz4QFm0PVP7

I see you guys are back-pedalling already ;-)

 

[Khafee]

Sure. I have never doubted Pakistan's possession of a working nuke (and challenge you to quote me to to proove your claim). Here again you present another case of attacking the person rather than discussing the message. Perhaps you can put aside your pride for a second (and not feel attacked) and look at the text that was posted. You don't have to agree to my interpretation of that text. But if you were mature, you would at least acknowledge that your interpretation isn't the only possible one.

Not going to take your bait, or your senseless ranting. Keep chasing your own tail, see if I care.

 

[optimisticlad]

Extremely Low Frequency 100 meters depth > Very low Frequency 20 meters depth
Pardon me for such silly question but why not Pakistan Army went straight for ELF which is comparable to Indian Navy's capability.

 

[Penguin]

The Block II upgrade enables the Harpoon to attack land-based targets and improves accuracy in congested coastal environments. To strike targets on land and ships in port, the missile uses GPS-aided inertial navigation to fly to and hit a designated GPS target point. For more conventional ASuW missions, the new GPS/INS improves guidance to the target area where the radar seeker then takes over. Here, the more accurate navigation solution allows users to discriminate target ships from islands or other nearby land masses (using shoreline data provided by the launch platform) and achieve a 90 per cent reduction in minimum separation distance between the hostile threat and local shorelines.

Denmark became the first customer for Harpoon Block II in 1999. Boeing’s Harpoon production line has now standardised on the Block II weapon and to date a further 10 navies have purchased rounds through FMS channels. These include Australia, Canada, Egypt, Pakistan and the United Arab Emirates.
http://opensources.info/anti-ship-weapons-updated-to-target-the-shore/

 

[MastanKhan]

PN launched a missile from a sub, it goes way inland, and sends its target to oblivion. Indian media screams that a Harpoon has been modified, US personnel fly ASAP to check inventory. Turns out all the Harpoons are all accounted for.

Here is the confirmation I got today: 8 Chinese subs + 3 Agosta's will have SLCM capability. NO two ways about it.

Haters still gonna hate, still gonna burn, and no one will give a rats behind.

Hi,

That was just a part of the story----. When Madam secretary after screaming at juniors to put pakistan in its place was told and the senators and congressmen asking for pakistan blood as well---ma'am----sirs---pakistan has far more advanced naval weapons with a much longer range than the Harpoons. " The harpoons we gave them are obsolete in front of what pakistan has---their jaws hit the floor---say 'what'---. Yessir---yes ma'am.

 

[Hell hound]

@Penguin @Khafee both you guys are respected and valued members here and we learn a lot from you guys. so pls guys stop it before we lose one of you. thanks

 

[The Deterrent]

@Khafee , not everything is as it seems. I would recommend a more mature and rational analysis of the news you get.

@Penguin , hopefully we'll get to know more publicly about the 2009 event a decade or two later.

For now, Babur SLCM is not ready, still in the works, though almost there.

 

[Khafee]

@Khafee , not everything is as it seems. I would recommend a more mature and rational analysis of the news you get.

@Penguin , hopefully we'll get to know more publicly about the 2009 event a decade or two later.

For now, Babur SLCM is not ready, still in the works, though almost there.

Thanks. That was the only thing missing in my professional life: advice from an online TT.

I guess your word should carry more weight over official communiques (about the test), or an officer from SPD.