Pakistan must allow Afghanistan direct trade access to India through Wagah: Ghani

[Bang Galore]

All three did, Musharraf ruled for 8 years and offered friendship in the early time of his rule, the fact that India could not form a good friendship in all those years, is a undeniable proof of India's incompetency/unwillingness to maintain peace with Pakistan. And India's recent behavior with NS and Zardari also solidify this claim.

Wrong. Musharraf only changed his position post 2003-04. He worked first with Vajpayee & then with Manmohan Singfh & came the closest to some sort of compromise (Musharraf-MMS formula). However by 2007 when the agreement was close to being finalised, Musharraf got into a lot of domestic trouble with the lawyer's agitation etc & quickly lost leverage.

When Zardari came to power, it coincided with some protests in Indian Kashmir and the PPP government decided to pull back on some of Musharraf's proposals & wanted more concessions from India. Gen. Kayani ,who during Musharraf's time was said to be on board, pulled back his support for the proposals saying that he didn't want to/couldn't antagonize the Islamic groups. 26/11 happened & then everything became history. That incident, more than anything else severely damaged India-Pakistan peace hopes because it changed India's view towards Pakistan completely. Zardari had very little to offer & there was nothing that could be offered by Manmohan singh either because after 26/11, there is not much of a constituency left in India who looked at peace talks with Pakistan favourably. This was even commented about by the former Indian NSA, Shivshankar Menon.

Sharif came in but quickly ended up playing a cat & mouse game with his army. The killings by beheading on the border during Manmohan Singh's term was meant to derail any talks & it did. The same happened when Sharif & Modi tried their part. Sharif's internal troubles with the marches & his compromise with the army means he is not about to be taken very seriously as someone who can hold on to his part of any bargain. Nothing India can do, especially since Pakistan has now released Lakhvi. There is hardly any meeting point.

 

[Path-Finder]

For Afghans, there is Khuda, then there is India, and then there are the rest.

Khuda then HinduVille!! Arrogant post so far.

 

[ito]

Yes Mr Ghani, what else do you want?



So you agree that Indian's only concern in Afghanistan is the loot and plunder of the resources? Why not send something that way as well.

There is nothing looting. Afghanistan sells its resources and India buys them.

 

[I.R.A]

Willing to accept you as what?

Independent neighbor who is not willing to accept your hegemony.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

and we do not need access to Central Asia. We have a faster and safer route through KKH. Islamabaf,Pak-Kashgar,China-Dushanbe,Tajikistan on KK-Highway ( N-35 ). Less than 600 miles. Delhi to Islamabad is over 400 miles.

There is the KKH with English, Chinese and Russian sign. Central Asia still uses Russian on account of being ex Soviet Block countries. Long slow boat for Delhi, India to Chah Bahar 2,700 miles .................... !

 

[Donatello]

There is nothing looting. Afghanistan sells its resources and India buys them.

Does it? Really?

 

[shhh]

Wrong. Musharraf only changed his position post 2003-04. He worked first with Vajpayee & then with Manmohan Singfh & came the closest to some sort of compromise (Musharraf-MMS formula). However by 2007 when the agreement was close to being finalised, Musharraf got into a lot of domestic trouble with the lawyer's agitation etc & quickly lost leverage.

When Zardari came to power, it coincided with some protests in Indian Kashmir and the PPP government decided to pull back on some of Musharraf's proposals & wanted more concessions from India. Gen. Kayani ,who during Musharraf's time was said to be on board, pulled back his support for the proposals saying that he didn't want to/couldn't antagonize the Islamic groups. 26/11 happened & then everything became history. That incident, more than anything else severely damaged India-Pakistan peace hopes because it changed India's view towards Pakistan completely. Zardari had very little to offer & there was nothing that could be offered by Manmohan singh either because after 26/11, there is not much of a constituency left in India who looked at peace talks with Pakistan favourably. This was even commented about by the former Indian NSA, Shivshankar Menon.

Sharif came in but quickly ended up playing a cat & mouse game with his army. The killings by beheading on the border during Manmohan Singh's term was meant to derail any talks & it did. The same happened when Sharif & Modi tried their part. Sharif's internal troubles with the marches & his compromise with the army means he is not about to be taken very seriously as someone who can hold on to his part of any bargain. Nothing India can do, especially since Pakistan has now released Lakhvi. There is hardly any meeting point.

Mushi: India could not do anything in "three years", a proof in itself.
26/11 was India's inside job, even india accepts it.
Modi did not try any part, he is passing very aggressive comments about Pakistan. Releasing/arresting anyone is Pakistan's internal matter, India shouldn't even try interfering in it.

It is India itself that is trying to pull away from peace talks. 26/11 is a clear proof of it.

 

[Bang Galore]

Independent neighbor who is not willing to accept your hegemony.

Nobody thinks otherwise. This is the standard line in Pakistan that I didn't believe people like you buy. We have a problem on the issue of cross border terrorism, we can even accept that you have serious differences on Kashmir, that doesn't bother us as much.

Outside of that, I really don't think there is anyone in India interested in either tampering with your independence or interested in having "hegemony" over you.

Mushi: India could not do anything in "three years", a proof in itself.
26/11 was India's inside job, even india accepts it.
Modi did not try any part, he is passing very aggressive comments about Pakistan. Releasing/arresting anyone is Pakistan's internal matter, India shouldn't even try interfering in it.

It is India itself that is trying to pull away from peace talks. 26/11 is a clear proof of it.

My mistake. Thought you might have an argument that is interesting. Not interested in discussing another loony conspiracy theorist.

As you said, there is nothing to discuss whatsoever with you.

 

[doppelganger]

Outside of that, I really don't think there is anyone in India interested in either tampering with your independence or interested in having "hegemony" over you.

In fact on a person to person level, I think we can get on pretty much as easily as we get along with cool guys and retards at home.

I would like to travel in Pakistan. Eat their food (chote ka). Make friendship with their girls. No animosity.

 

[shhh]

My mistake. Thought you might have an argument that is interesting. Not interested in discussing another loony conspiracy theorist.

As you said, there is nothing to discuss whatsoever with you.

Nobody fights a losing argument, thanks for accepting that you have nothing of substance about this and accepting that India has no interest in maintaining peace talks.

Now get back to the topic.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

This was told to me recently by some of our surgeons who have been operating there non stop for the past 18 months. Inside cardboard walled structures.

The Afghans love us. Across their sectarian and ethnic faultlines. They also keep us safe. From each other and from you. The embassy bombing was a rare intelligence lapse and something they have never ever lived down to date.

And what do you achieve ? Afghan cadets are now training in ou academy .. Afghans are conducting operations against anti Pak elements operating on thei soil..
Th afghan PM just told your media tat h will not let his country be the proxy ground? He visited Pak before gave a speech at the parliament .. His Intel chief and army chief and himself costed GHQ and martyrs memorial ? Talks about writing a new book ? More trade .. Access to Central Asia - connected by motorways from Pak .. And much more ?

The only change has been in favour of Pak rather ran India ?


Coming back to your frnd .. Cardboard structures really? Despite our economic disaster we have still donated almost a
Billion dollars in Afghanistan . Dozens of thousands cross the border everyday into Pak .. For treatment,education,jobs etx... Millions are living here ! And so on ...

Btw, interesting trivia. For all your bombast, some "very" high ranking PAKISTANI officials strictly off the record come to Indian surgeons to be operated on in Afghanistan.

Aur kar lo baat! Hilarious.

Sure bro those high ranking Pakistani officials who spend crores of RS for treatment (of taxpayers money) in EU and America went to Afghanistan to be operated by awesome indian doctors ? Gimme a break!

 

[I.R.A]

Nobody thinks otherwise. This is the standard line in Pakistan that I didn't believe people like you buy. We have a problem on the issue of cross border terrorism, we can even accept that you have serious differences on Kashmir, that doesn't bother us as much.

Outside of that, I really don't think there is anyone in India interested in either tampering with your independence or interested in having "hegemony" over you.

Should I take your statement as an ordinary citizen of India or someone who deeply knows Indian State and its functioning, its secrets, its diplomacy, its intentions, its plans? Because we don't have problem with Indians but its the attitude of Indian State and its conduct that we don't like.

 

[doppelganger]

And what do you achieve ? Afghan cadets are now training in ou academy ..

Ours too. I have an Afghan classmate incidentally. Two Nepali. One Botswana. Different years have different nationalities coming here to train. The NDA is full of them.

Afghans are conducting operations against anti Pak elements operating on thei soil..

The only ant India elements on their soil is you, and they act in their own way on those.

Th afghan PM just told your media tat h will not let his country be the proxy ground? He visited Pak before gave a speech at the parliament .. His Intel chief and army chief and himself costed GHQ and martyrs memorial ? Talks about writing a new book ? More trade .. Access to Central Asia - connected by motorways from Pak .. And much more ?

The whole thread has been about their PM giving you an ultimatum.

Coming back to your frnd .. Cardboard structures really? Despite our economic disaster we have still donated almost a Billion dollars in Afghanistan . Dozens of thousands cross the border everyday into Pak .. For treatment,education,jobs etx... Millions are living here ! And so on ...

We stray off the beaten track. Afghanistan is more than just Kabul and 3-4 main cities.

Sure bro those high ranking Pakistani officials who spend crores of RS for treatment (of taxpayers money) in EU and America went to Afghanistan to be operated by awesome indian doctors ? Gimme a break!

I cannot obviously take names here.

 

[Path-Finder]

This was told to me recently by some of our surgeons who have been operating there non stop for the past 18 months. Inside cardboard walled structures.

The Afghans love us. Across their sectarian and ethnic faultlines. They also keep us safe. From each other and from you. The embassy bombing was a rare intelligence lapse and something they have never ever lived down to date.

Btw, interesting trivia. For all your bombast, some "very" high ranking PAKISTANI officials strictly off the record come to Indian surgeons to be operated on in Afghanistan.

Aur kar lo baat! Hilarious.

Yes they love you we, will help expand this love by not allowing trade but allow all Illegal Afghans to be deported to HinduVille via Wagah!!!

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Pakistani's let's not look at the Afghanistan through the Indian prism. Who the hell are they? We have geography intertwined with Afghans. Afghan's largest ethnic group Pashtuns number almost 28 million in Pakistan. So we will sort our affairs out in the long run.

We have millions of Afghans living in Pakistan most of whom do not want to go back. Do not take seriously what PM Ghani said iin Delhi. He has to milch them, that is his job but the central relationship between us and Afghans is going to be decided by our shared geography and history.