Pakistan might consider the Klimov RD-33MK for JF-17

[RAMPAGE]

EJ200 is not cleared for export for Pakistan.

So you're saying that the British won't sell it to Pakistan?

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

So you're saying that the British won't sell it to Pakistan?

EJ200 is in a consortium currently led by the Germans. I am not saying it will not sell it Pakistan, I am saying it is currently not cleared for Export. The only way it will sell is Pakistan guarantees the Engine will not fly to China. On the airframe / engine side, PAF is still dependent on the Chinese for configuration and design changes. Hence, no engine change can be done without CATIC, and no western government will approve their engine going to China.

 

[RAMPAGE]

On the airframe / engine side, PAF is still dependent on the Chinese for configuration and design changes. Hence, no engine change can be done without CATIC

Says who? I have a friend at PAC who's a propulsion engineer. I'll try to confirm this from him. Although I really doubt that we cannot make the necessary changes needed to install EJ-200.

In terms of JF-17 powerplant, Air Commodore Mahmood told AIN that, “We’re satisfied with the [Russian Klimov]RD-93, but some customers may want another engine. We have done preliminary studies on the [Eurojet] EJ200and [Snecma] M88. They are doable.”

 

[Thorough Pro]

Really? and what did you build?

You are partially right and partially wrong too

We stalled the RD 93 deal for gaining time so that we could build up our Air force

Also we did another deal with Russia that for NOT agreeing to the sale of
AL 31 for J 10

Now we are confident that our Mig 29 and Mirage 2000 along with Mig 21
( All 3 have been heavily upgraded ) can easily overcome the JF 17

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Rang Day Basanti, was it?

Rang de Basanti is a 10 year old film

Secondly the film massively exxagerated the problem of spares
by taking too much of what is known as cinematic liberties

I dont know what chatter you have heard ; but IAF is ready for a TWO front war
Bring it on

We have done Two exercises ; Exercise Livewire 2013 and Livewire 2015

Do you call the phone chatter between IAF base X OC ENG WING with BC Base X, and BC Base X with IAF HQ created or planted?

Yes definitely ; why not ; It is known as counter intelligence

The REAL communications happen on a Secure line

It is open fact that IAF is struggling both on keeping pilots, operational squadrons, and maintenance.

If we had been really weak ; as you wish to believe ; then PAF and PLAAF
would NOT have wasted any time in attacking us

What are you waiting for

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Rang de Basanti is a 10 year old film

Secondly the film massively exxagerated the problem of spares
by taking too much of what is known as cinematic liberties

I dont know what chatter you have heard ; but IAF is ready for a TWO front war
Bring it on

We have done Two exercises ; Exercise Livewire 2013 and Livewire 2015



Yes definitely ; why not ; It is known as counter intelligence

The REAL communications happen on a Secure line



If we had been really weak ; as you wish to believe ; then PAF and PLAAF
would NOT have wasted any time in attacking us

What are you waiting for

Thank you for the tri colour waving. Any reasonable debate ends here mr. "Cohen"

 

[Tipu7]

Dont believe everything that you read or hear

We are believing what we SAW in Iron Fist drills of IAF.
And all "rumors" about incompetence of IAF were proved true by television screen....

Also we did another deal with Russia that for NOT agreeing to the sale of
AL 31 for J 10

This Explains the difference between how much you "pretend you know" and how much you "actually know"
Why PAF did not follow J10? Because Russians refused to provide AL31 for them on Indian pressure?
Seriously? 36 AL31 vs 150 RD93 and India blocked the one related to 36 engines at the compromise of 150 other engines?
At least add some common sense in your claim ......

 

[somebozo]

Each of RD-93 and RD-33MK have their pros and cons. Service life of RD-33MK is about 4000 hours while of RD-93 is 2200 hours but the reduction in service life of RD-93 comes with gain in wet Thrust of RD-93 as 98KN as same for RD-33MK is 88KN. Till now PAF has faced no problems with RD-93 and I find no other reason for RD-93 to be changed but only one and that is that RD-93 can only be replaced with an Engine which provides higher thrust than it. RD-33MK can come in with any twin engine aircraft as it suits so.

According to PAF officials they have juiced these engines up to 7000 Hours without problems..
Some times special variations funded by end user require deliberate under-rated labelling to deceive the adversary..

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

According to PAF officials they have juiced these engines up to 7000 Hours without problems..
Some times special variations funded by end user require deliberate under-rated labelling to deceive the adversary..

This is not correct. PAF, like any other operator, follows the book. If the book says 200 hour inspection, 600 you inspection, 1200 overhaul, then thats how it is. Nobody juices the engine to 7000 hours to see what will happen. Do you think a flame out and crash of JF17 be good for the program? Which PAF official makes this claim?

 

[somebozo]

This is not correct. PAF, like any other operator, follows the book. If the book says 200 hour inspection, 600 you inspection, 1200 overhaul, then thats how it is. Nobody juices the engine to 7000 hours to see what will happen. Do you think a flame out and crash of JF17 be good for the program? Which PAF official makes this claim?

There is something called destructive endurance testing...equipment is maxed out for various research and technical analysis..this is important in military aviation to understand equipment behavior under reduced maintenance as facilities may become damaged during war...use common sense..

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

There is something called destructive endurance testing...equipment is maxed out for various research and technical analysis..this is important in military aviation to understand equipment behavior under reduced maintenance as facilities may become damaged during war...use common sense..

I don't have to use common sense like yours, i am aware of civil and military aviation procedures. Destructive endurance testing is done by manufacturers, and not operators. Maybe it is a figment of a your imagination that PAF will risk its platform to do an endurance test on RD93 against the hours prescribed in the manual.

 

[somebozo]

I don't have to use common sense like yours, i am aware of civil and military aviation procedures. Destructive endurance testing is done by manufacturers, and not operators. Maybe it is a figment of a your imagination that PAF will risk its platform to do an endurance test on RD93 against the hours prescribed in the manual.

That may be your point of view but from years of selling engineering equipments experience let me tell you that all air forces do this..including Saudi..and Pakistani..

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

That may be your point of view but from years of selling engineering equipments experience let me tell you that all air forces do this..including Saudi..and Pakistani..

So you speculate based on your experience of selling engineering equipment? Well I don't speculate. In aviation, the rule book is followed, and strictly. There is no endurance testing being done on RD-93 and you have your point of view, but kindly don't make up facts based on ghost "paf officials."

 

[Abingdonboy]

Do you call the phone chatter between IAF base X OC ENG WING with BC Base X, and BC Base X with IAF HQ created or planted? Very interesting. It is open fact that IAF is struggling both on keeping pilots, operational squadrons, and maintenance.

Rang Day Basanti, was it?

The MiG-21s and 27s will be out of service in 5 years- problem solved.

Rang De Basanti indeed

 

[MastanKhan]

There is something called destructive endurance testing...equipment is maxed out for various research and technical analysis..this is important in military aviation to understand equipment behavior under reduced maintenance as facilities may become damaged during war...use common sense..

Hi,

That is a strange post-----. End user does not particpate on his own or does destructive endurance---that would void the warranty and the seller may yank the product and cancel the sale.

Destructive endurance is only tested under controlled conditions---next time your end user does that---warn them you will pull the plug----because of bad publicity of failure.