Pakistan: Man accused of blasphemy shot dead at court trial

[AbuzarIlyas]

The next time you advocate in favor of murder and terrorism you will be banned and the forum will do whatever it can to report you to the authorities.

@Nilgiri post is an excellent example of how Indian members can contribute on threads discussing Pakistani issues. He didn't bring in his identity, he didn't make comparisons between Pakistan and any other country. He offered a well reasoned, logical and objective argument.

Shut up!

 

[Yaseen1]

why you not ask this to qadyanis when they threatens to kill any qadyani who leave their religion and accept Islam and many such people have unvieled this reality

Please stick to the topic.

My username is none of your business and your comment indicates that you've obviously run out of any logical arguments to counter the positions I and many others have taken on this thread.

I mean, are you going to reject Allah's commands of 'no compulsion or coercion' in religion, as clearly stated in the Quran?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Shut up!

Thread banned.

Like I said, next time to advocate in favor of murder or terrorism, you will be banned from the forum and we'll do whatever we can to report you to the authorities.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

why you not ask this to qadyanis when they threatens to kill any qadyani who leave their religion and accept Islam and many such people have unvieled this reality

That is something that should also be equally condemned.

But I am not discussing Shia, Sunni or Ahmadis - I am discussing the un-Islamic laws in Pakistan against Ahmadis, that violate Islamic principles of no coercion in religion.

 

[Iltutmish]

The correct analogy between the US and Pakistan on this issue is between Mormons and Ahmadis.

At the end of the day both states categorize their population and give them special treatment corresponding to their respective category. Pakistan has laws regarding the religion, because we are an Islamic republic and don’t allow non Muslims as ruler. And the US takes care that you don’t lie to be an US citizen. The US also doesn’t allow non natural born citizens to become president and if prince Charles converts to Islam he cannot be the king of the UK...

The State should not be involved in determining who is or is not Muslim.

But why? And what real legal disadvantages do they have if they are considered non-Muslim?

Again: the state is incapable to protect its minorities and to provide a functioning law enforcement and justice system. This is a general problem in all of South Asia. Mob mentality, mullah madness and general corruption...

P.S: You're not going to be banned over making logical arguments in support of your position that do not celebrate or endorse murder, terrorism and vigilante justice. You did none of the latter and you have every right to express your point of view on Ahmadis.

Thank you.

 

[Moonlight]

Responses and reactions should be proportionate - if the 'offense' is verbal insults, then the response should be verbal insults, if any.

With all due respect, the question isn't whether people should be free to condemn Ahmadis for their faith or free to condemn anyone who they feel insulted their faith. The argument is over using violence as a response to verbal 'insults' & over theological differences.

As I said earlier, people are free to view Ahmadis as non-Muslim, condemn them, proselytize against them, but using force, whether through mobs or through the State, to coerce them to violate their own faith and to discriminate against them, is unacceptable.

Um no I am not even talking about Ahmedis. My comments are very generic and all I am saying is, anyone even if a Muslim use slurs and insult any prophet would definitely face a severe reaction. You can not make the majority learn but you can make the minority understand to avoid any potential problems against the majority.

Where do this violence come from? We need to change our tactics of dealing with similar problems.
I have already said that, this person had no right to kill him even if he did said something blasphemous.
But at the same time, we need to understand the sentiments of the a lot bigger group too.

Why we are never ready to accept the fact, minority often offends and we need to educate them too?
They should be condemned too?

To be very honest, on every incident like this, everyone feel sympathies for the lost soul. I definitely do too.
But how many of the sympathizer actually condemned the insulting comments against the the individuals especially Rasool Allah Saw?
That is covered with the pathetic “freedom of speech”. We also need to assertively condemned those who intentionally attack prophets.

 

[krash]

WHERE I JUST BLASPHEMED AGAIN, if some one call jhidai as a joker wht u think what reaction will come ??? Mr MODERATOR : What ever I wrote its not Non sense and not violation of any PDF RULES.

You claimed,

"Who ever claim prophet hod after MUHAMMAD (PBUH) that MAN should be given death plenty. This Punishment Law is given by whole universe Lord (ALLAH)."

Allah has given no such law, period. When you attribute anything to Allah or his religion without it being so, just because you want it to be or because you are utterly uneducated on the matter, then you are a liar and have committed "Bid'ah", i.e. heresy. Speaking falsehood, in your ignorance, on behalf of God is by definition disrespectful to Him and hence blasphemous. Which, in turn, is punishable by death under the law that you support.

 

[POPEYE-Sailor]

You claimed,

"Who ever claim prophet hod after MUHAMMAD (PBUH) that MAN should be given death plenty. This Punishment Law is given by whole universe Lord (ALLAH)."

Allah has given no such law, period. When you attribute anything to Allah or his religion without it being so, just because you want it to be or because you are utterly uneducated on the matter, then you are a liar and have committed "Bid'ah", i.e. heresy. Speaking falsehood, in your ignorance, on behalf of God is by definition disrespectful to Him and hence blasphemous. Which, in turn, is punishable by death under the law that you support.

Please dont ban me. I am wrong. IF I start give u reference then again u will strike 2nd ban. In fact i am not agree with your statement.
Thank you sir g.

 

[krash]

Please dont ban me. I am wrong. IF I start give u reference then again u will strike 2nd ban. In fact i am not agree with your statement.
Thank you sir g.

Please. Let's have the references instead of empty threats about presenting references. I want us to go down that road.


ps: The warning you received was for your post which not only celebrated the murder of Ahmadis but also encouraged it, not for your incorrect argument. This was clearly stated in the warning. I don't need to use warnings to deconstruct your argument.

 

[POPEYE-Sailor]

Please. Let's have the references instead of empty threats about presenting references. I want us to go down that road.


ps: The warning you received was for your post which not only celebrated the murder of Ahmadis but also encouraged it, not for your incorrect argument. This was clearly stated in the warning. I don't need to use warnings to deconstruct your argument.

I replied to that guy who said Jihadi is joker, in 1990 - 2000 those jokers are concrete in front of soviet n indian forces. In this court incident he claim that guys was jihadi and he declare all jihadi in one lane as a joker. You guys dont want to talk about core issue why only ahmmedi's are killed by the local people of pakistan ? why not other religion people are killed in the name BLASPHEMED ? thats the question you should raised and discuss. Other wise it will heppen again as it happen in past so many times. First promise me u will not strike 2nd ban then i will give u references .

 

[Imran Khan]

ulema who have more knowledge of Islam than you have accused this man of blasphemy and support this punishment so you have no authority to decide and regard it as unjust law

Do we have any ulema ? I see all liars jokers and stupid ignorants ulema

Few ulema lile ghamdi and israr ahmed few others are real ulema.

 

[krash]

I replied to that guy who said Jihadi is joker, in 1990 - 2000 those jokers are concrete in front of soviet n indian forces. In this court incident he claim that guys was jihadi and he declare all jihadi in one lane as a joker.

That does not allow you to celebrate/encourage the murder of anyone. Neither is "He did it first" ever a valid excuse.

You guys dont want to talk about core issue why only ahmmedi's are killed by the local people of pakistan ? why not other religion people are killed in the name BLASPHEMED ? thats the question you should raised and discuss. Other wise it will heppen again as it happen in past so many times.

Another utterly false statement. Christians, Hindus, heck even Muslims have been regularly accused and killed under the name of Blasphemy. Please use an elementary google search to confirm this, I don't want to flood this thread with the list of cases.

First promise me u will not strike 2nd ban then i will give u references .

I won't ban you for presenting references. You in turn have to promise that you will set aside your sentiments and hatred for Ahmadis/Non-Muslims and actually try to understand what you are being shown when I deconstruct those references. Deal?

 

[zeeshe100]

insaf har ik ka haq hai

 

[khail007]

The law against Ahmadis is un-Islamic - if Pakistan is an Islamic State, then it shouldn't have laws violating the Quran's commands of no compulsion or coercion in religion.

Sir G, if you are talking about declaring them non-Muslim than I do not agree with your statement - they are non-Muslim according to their belief (negating the 'ختم نبوت' clause of the Islam). Being non-Muslims, they called and declare themselves Muslims - that is fake claim and main reason of dispute with Qadianis.
On the other hand, the wrong use of blasphemy law against non-Muslims to be condemned and legislation required to convict those who use it wrongly - IMO such Muslims are subject to tried under blasphemy law as being aware of truth they do project some wrong accusation against non-Muslim which falls under blasphemy.
Further, our country have blessed with many renowned Ulemas and also there is Islamic Ideology Council, which could advise on such legislation.
Further rather than taking such discussion at this forum and discussion among members will not bring any positivity but add negativity.
Let it be at proper forum with proper educated people - will request you to advise to close this thread as soon as possible. Praying for blessing for peace and righteous path for all those who are involved in discussion.

 

[SilverKnights]

انیس سو انچاس میں لیاقت علی خان نے مولیوں کے ساتھ ملکر جو قرارداد مقاصد منظور کروائی تھی جس میں یہ پراپیگنڈا طے ہوا تھا کہ الباکستان کے آئین کا ڈھانچہ یورپی طرز کا قطعی نہیں ہوگا بلکہ اس کی بنیاد "اسلامی جمہوریت" و نظریات پر ہوگی
(یہ غور کرنے کی بات ہے کہ جمہوریت اسلامی یا غیر اسلامی نہیں بلکہ سیکولر ہوتی بلکہ اس طرح کی شرائط کے عائد ہونے کے بعد جمہوریت،جمہوریت رہ ہی نہیں جاتی)
اس وقت مشرقی پاکستان سے تعلق رکھنے والے کانگریس کے ممبر قومی اسمبلی چٹرپاڈیا
نے لیاقت علی خان کو احتجاجاً مخاطب کر کے کہا تھا کہ
لیاقت علی ہم اپنے آپ کو اس ملک میں برابر کا شہری سمجھتے تھے ہمارے آباؤ اجداد صدیوں سے یہاں کے باسی تھے آپ کی اس قرارداد نے ہم سے ہماری برابری چھین کر ہماری حیثیت کو ثانوی بنا ڈالا
سب سے اہم بات جو چٹر پاڈیا نے کہی کہ ہمارے ساتھ جو ہوا سو ہوا تم نے مذہب کو ریاستی معاملات میں شامل کرنے کا جو فیصلہ کیا ہے اس کی گونج مجھے مستقبل میں واضح سنائی دے رہی ہے
اسی بحث کے دوران چوہدری ظفر اللہ خان قادیانی جو کہ اس وقت وزیر داخلہ ہوا کرتے تھے اور سرکاری طور پر مسلمان بھی انہوں نے قرارداد کے حق میں بولتے ہو ئے کہا کہ
آپ کو پریشان ہونے کی کوئی ضرورت نہیں اسلام میں اقلیتوں کو پورا پورا تحفظ حاصل ہے وغیرہ وغیرہ۔۔
پھر 1973 میں بھٹو کے دور حکومت میں قادیانیوں کو کافر قرار دے کر آج تک جو کچھ ہو رہا ہے وہ سب کے سامنے ہے
بات یہاں تک آ پہنچی ہے کہ عدالت میں جج کے سامنے قادیانی کو گولی مار دی گئی
آگر آج ظفر اللہ خان اور چٹر پاڈیا زندہ ہوتے تو وہ پوچھتے ظفر اللہ خان اقلیتوں کے تحفظ کیا ہوتے ہیں

Thank you, sir, for your reply.
I just want to say that Zafar Ali khan assured them security, it's true, however, he was thinking of himself as a Muslim as you well know that this community declared non-muslim unanimously in 1973 after very long sessions and series of talks between Muslims and Qadiani leaderships.