Pakistan likely to buy China’s Z-10 Thunderbolt attack helicopters

[BuddhaPalm]

Summary China will provide 3 z10 helicopters to pakistan in 2015 for war against terror.

India = terror

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Well 10 for testing would be good we can use them against TTP and we would know if we should go for 60 more of try to get T-129 as for MBT-3000 there is still confusion on this.

Maybe they they are giving 3 initially more will follow... Confusion confusion every where... MBT-3000 ,Al-Khalid 1,
ZBL-09 Armored personnel carrier, Submarine deal, Licence production of Textron Commando and Russian stuff

 

[Beast]

Answer is not as easy as its seems

While PA has been using corba for ages, PA have assimilated to the way how US gunship operate, where US gunship is primary intradiction gunship instead of a attack orientated plaform like the rest of the world. PA cannot change the role ofits gunship with a slap of a finger

Plus gunship is what PA desperately need now, not 12 months down the road or 2 years down the roads, unless China can offer to man the Z10 gunship for PA or vice versa to turkey, Cobra or Zulu Cobra is the best bet with PA.

You can buy or JV T129 or Z10 in the future when you get a new bunch of people to train with that, but right now Cobra is the only answer.

Nonsense. With deteriorating r/s between Pakistan and US, continue trying to depend on US will be a fatal mistake. The opuim addiction needs to be kick away at some point. What happen if US refuse to supply the engine for TA-129 or refuse to supply any critical parts for Cobra? Now is the time. WZ-10

 

[Muhammad Omar]

^^^^ Exactly we should go for China at least they wont refuse for the spares like America did and Cobra are now crap falling out of the Skies... Turkey helis well they use American engine if they stop the supply of Engines T-129 in PA will end up like Cobra... Try WZ-10 if like it then go for it and we have options of Mi-28 also may be we should also but some of them like 15-20

 

[jhungary]

Nonsense. With deteriorating r/s between Pakistan and US, continue trying to depend on US will be a fatal mistake. The opuim addiction needs to be kick away at some point. What happen if US refuse to supply the engine for TA-129 or refuse to supply any critical parts for Cobra? Now is the time. WZ-10

dude, who told you the Pak-US relationship ia deterioriating? Pak member here or the CCP news outlet? Do you even know the DG of ISI have just returned to Pakistan from US after studing in the famous US War college? How many Pakistani general did PLA train? If the relationship is deterioriating like you said, US would not have allow Pakistani General to train at the war college.

Beside, do you even know what is the different in general between Z10 and AH1? Do you even know these 2 are 2 very different attack helicopter platform? It's not like Pakistani can fly in a Z10 in a couple of time then they can master it...It gonna take some time and time is what PA do not have

 

[Beast]

dude, who told you the Pak-US relationship ia deterioriating? Pak member here or the CCP news outlet? Do you even know the DG of ISI have just returned to Pakistan from US after studing in the famous US War college? How many Pakistani general did PLA train? If the relationship is deterioriating like you said, US would not have allow Pakistani General to train at the war college.

Beside, do you even know what is the different in general between Z10 and AH1? Do you even know these 2 are 2 very different attack helicopter platform? It's not like Pakistani can fly in a Z10 in a couple of time then they can master it...It gonna take some time and time is what PA do not have

You want to continue living in your delusion. Please go ahead. It will not derail the fact, US and pakistan are not on the best term. Your advise is as good as asking Argentina to go buy Gripen or Euro typhoon and thinking it is the best solution.

The U.S. refused to supply Pakistan with the 6.6 ton AH-1W model

 

[jhungary]

You want to continue living in your delusion. Please go ahead. It will not derail the fact, US and pakistan are not on the best term. Your advise is as good as asking Argentina to go buy Gripen or Euro typhoon and thinking it is the best solution.

The U.S. refused to supply Pakistan with the 6.6 ton AH-1W model

lol seems to me, you are the one who are delusion lol
still waiting on your answer on How many Pakistani General did PLA staff college trained after 2009?

And do you even know how powerful the position of DG of ISI in PA? And that person was a graduate from US Army War College in 08/09

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

dude, who told you the Pak-US relationship ia deterioriating? Pak member here or the CCP news outlet? Do you even know the DG of ISI have just returned to Pakistan from US after studing in the famous US War college? How many Pakistani general did PLA train? If the relationship is deterioriating like you said, US would not have allow Pakistani General to train at the war college.

To be honest Maj. JHungary, you have to understand the socio-economic status of Pakistanis polled on view towards countries.

The poor masses will hold China in highest regard. While the Elite will see the US as Pakistan's greatest true ally.

I can probably guarantee, if a Pakistani Soldier is ordered to shoot at Chinese Soldier's he'll hesitate. While at a lesser degree against an American Soldier.

As far as training goes, Pakistan and China focus more on exercises. While the US-Pakistan carry out both educational and live-fire. That's not to say that many Pakistani Soldiers haven't gone to Chinese Academies for studies. Quite a few are seconded to Chinese Military Branches.

You want to continue living in your delusion. Please go ahead. It will not derail the fact, US and pakistan are not on the best term. Your advise is as good as asking Argentina to go buy Gripen or Euro typhoon and thinking it is the best solution.

Even the Chinese aren't supplying weapons to Pakistan.

NO-ONE wants to upset the military balance in S. Asia. That includes China.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

lol seems to me, you are the one who are delusion lol
still waiting on your answer on How many Pakistani General did PLA staff college trained after 2009?

And do you even know how powerful the position of DG of ISI in PA? And that person was a graduate from US Army War College in 08/09

This relationship should be strengthened and made stronger .. But it shouldn't be compared to our relations with China...

Answer is not as easy as its seems

While PA has been using corba for ages, PA have assimilated to the way how US gunship operate, where US gunship is primary intradiction gunship instead of a attack orientated plaform like the rest of the world. PA cannot change the role ofits gunship with a slap of a finger

Plus gunship is what PA desperately need now, not 12 months down the road or 2 years down the roads, unless China can offer to man the Z10 gunship for PA or vice versa to turkey, Cobra or Zulu Cobra is the best bet with PA.

You can buy or JV T129 or Z10 in the future when you get a new bunch of people to train with that, but right now Cobra is the only answer.

True but would USA supply us the Zulu ? Pak has been requesting it since quiet a few years and the request was turned down ? Due to USA's new found love for india ? So can PA afford to wait for another 4 years hopin USA will finally sell em the Cobras ? Off course not.. We need a gunship right now .. Our Cobras are ageing and need replacement.. So naturally we would go for a platform that is available and sanction proof aswell .. Unless USA offers us Cobras....

 

[jhungary]

To be honest Maj. JHungary, you have to understand the socio-economic status of Pakistanis polled on view towards countries.

The poor masses will hold China in highest regard. While the Elite will see the US as Pakistan's greatest true ally.

I can probably guarantee, if a Pakistani Soldier is ordered to shoot at Chinese Soldier's he'll hesitate. While at a lesser degree against an American Soldier.

As far as training goes, Pakistan and China focus more on exercises. While the US-Pakistan carry out both educational and live-fire. That's not to say that many Pakistani Soldiers haven't gone to Chinese Academies for studies. Quite a few are seconded to Chinese Military Branches.



Even the Chinese aren't supplying weapons to Pakistan.

NO-ONE wants to upset the military balance in S. Asia. That includes China.

i wonder if you actually have read the LG Rizwan Akhtar disertation in Army war college, what you said is exactly ehathe wrote to get a Master of Strategic Studies ...

There are gap of trust between Pakistan and the US and that bridge of trust has pull in the instability of Pakistan and stretch the PA. But Pakistan would and always will maintain as US strong allied in South Asia as he have said in his paper becuase of the political unity and goal shares between both government, but sadly, did not shares brtween citizens of each country

but anyway, i said PA should stick to Cobra for operation constring, not becuase of the relationship or what not, simple cobra is the best bet PA have in the time they need to field and use the attack chopper with maximum effectively, just some chinese troll put in a bad relationship here and there...

 

[Viper0011.]

Can any senior guy confirm it ? @Horus @Oscar @fatman17

I am not on the preferred list you asked from. But I can confirm it. These are being given for Evaluation purposes, specially in the Cold areas. Some Russian Jets and Helis have issues in working with very cold areas. And majority of the engine and mechanical tech for Chinese platforms is derived from Russia (and Euro-copter for heli's).
So these 3 will help the Chinese evaluate these platforms in real war situation, operational effectiveness and then an obvious war test in super cold areas. War is the best place to test new weapons.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Its now getting frustrating.What the hell r we gonna purchase for our army.T129,Mi28,Mi35,AH1Z/W or now Z10.

I think in the end we will settle with Petro Bus in the end
indeed this is getting ridiculous

Mi-35 fits perfectly the bill if it comes with infra-red thermal imaging night fighting capability. we thought wqe had already brought them but that didnt happen and then it was Mi28 night fighter

then it was T-129 and Z-10 side by side and super Cobra added in just in case you didnt loose the plot here.


Me, honestly dont really care about the platform as long as it is rugged and can take the punishment of small to medium rounds and is comparatively efficient to maintain and offers the all round all weather day night capability to perform hunter killer operations. super Cobra excels but it would have its fangs trimmed due to Indian element. T-129 suffers same issue due to American engine. leaves us with Russian Mi-35 and Z-10 as last options.
Z-10 on paper very good and thats that.

Can any senior guy confirm it ? @Horus @Oscar @fatman17

giving a second thought to Pakistani news papers specially the urdu ones is great disservice to your intellect. there wont be any follow up and it will join the news of Russian and Turkish copter stories well

 

[jhungary]

This relationship should be strengthened and made stronger .. But it shouldn't be compared to our relations with China...



True but would USA supply us the Zulu ? Pak has been requesting it since quiet a few years and the request was turned down ? Due to USA's new found love for india ? So can PA afford to wait for another 4 years hopin USA will finally sell em the Cobras ? Off course not.. We need a gunship right now .. Our Cobras are ageing and need replacement.. So naturally we would go for a platform that is available and sanction proof aswell .. Unless USA offers us Cobras....

the first part have been answered previously so moving on with Super Cobra.

I agree, fact that Zulu cobra is not going to be approved that easily, A.) US still building them cor the Marine, and B.) It s not going to be free or ally priced like the Cobra before.

If PA want to have the zulu, most likely PA eould need to waitand well, pay full price on it. But meanwhile PA could get some AH1W instead of the zulu to fill the gap, then decide to either run with Zulu, T129 or Z10.

Because now US are fieldingthe Zulu, they would have surplus AH1W and PA can probably get them dirt cheap, plus it could be a good stop gap, but instead PA only asked for Zulu or Apache.....Well.....i dont know...

 

[Viper0011.]

To be honest Maj. JHungary, you have to understand the socio-economic status of Pakistanis polled on view towards countries.

The poor masses will hold China in highest regard. While the Elite will see the US as Pakistan's greatest true ally.
Even the Chinese aren't supplying weapons to Pakistan.
NO-ONE wants to upset the military balance in S. Asia. That includes China.

The socio-economic status of Pakistan revolves around one image around the US. We are the aggressors unfortunately and somehow, we are "after" the Muslim nation. Well, the SAME Muslim nation doesn't really care about Pakistan. So not sure why Pakistan has such a huge issue.
At the end of the day, we are Pakistan's ally since its inception and yes, the relationship went through peaks and valleys, BUT its still going and both sides get benefit out of it. It would be nice if Pakistani leadership starts to acknowledge the good coming out of this relationship so a downstream change in people can be seen from this. Having super negative views about a country you work with in every situation isn't productive.

Last part, you are mistaken about the military balance. If there is one real ally that China has, its Pakistan and vs-a-vis. Wasn't it Chinese premier a while ago who openly called "Pakistan is China's Israel"? What do you think that statement meant for the entire globe?

 

[airmarshal]

You want to continue living in your delusion. Please go ahead. It will not derail the fact, US and pakistan are not on the best term. Your advise is as good as asking Argentina to go buy Gripen or Euro typhoon and thinking it is the best solution.

The U.S. refused to supply Pakistan with the 6.6 ton AH-1W model

The article you are quoting states that US Marines have re-manufactured the the AH-1W to AH-1Z config. This to me means US has a limited number of such helicopters and are not being manufactured new.

I dont know if Pakistan is looking for so many options and posters here say US and Pakistan relations are good, then why doesnt Pakistan ask for Apache helicopters? They are the best, battle proven platforms right now.