What's new

Pakistan Issues Demarche to US over Drone Strikes - US Argues Strikes Legal

The failure to formally raise the issue by Pakistan before the UNSC or the ICJ makes the use of the word in red quite important:
No it does not - Pakistan has officially and clearly articulated its opposition to drone strikes. The decision, so far, to refrain from taking the issue before the UNSC or ICJ has been done out of a desire to not escalate the situation and resolve the issue with the US diplomatically, which the US, in its imperial hubris, has so far refused to do.
 
No it does not - Pakistan has officially and clearly articulated its opposition to drone strikes. The decision, so far, to refrain from taking the issue before the UNSC or ICJ has been done out of a desire to not escalate the situation and resolve the issue with the US diplomatically, which the US, in its imperial hubris, has so far refused to do.

Okay, if the word "consent" is not important in this context, would you please care to explain the possible reasons causing Pakistan to still not raise the issue before the UNSC or the ICJ, at this late stage in the game?

After all, USA has given clear and consistent statements that it intends to use drone strikes as an effective tool in the war. Pakistan should know by now that its "protests" are going nowhere, so if it feels it is in the right, it should be prepared to take the matter further.

Please do keep in mind that while one may not agree with the actions of the government of Pakistan, those actions (or lack thereof) are internationally recognized to be with the due force of sovereign authority, unless you wish to argue to the contrary.
 
Now they are openly saying that Drones are legal. What next?

My personal opinion is that USA wants Pakistan to remain firm on our stand of closing NATO supplies so that they can get a Bahana of stopping our aid of 3bn which is now due now for quite some time. From kerry Lugar bill they first make agreements with us of intelligence sharing and when they got their fish they put a dagger in our back and for no reason killed our 24 soldiers on the Border in cold blood. All that stories of doing covert operation on the border region doesn't makes sense at all. They are getting all their supplies from Northern Distribution Network. What's the point of forcing us when they knew we will tax them this time. If they really want NATO supplies to be open they will not be doing so many thing against us at the same time. This drones today does'nt make sense as well.I think it is time that All their Drama and Bullshit must be answered by setting firm policies.
 
I guess, pakistan treats NWFP in a different way, if the strikes were in punjab or sindh, then the reaction would have been different.
As far as drone strikes and the complaints are concerned, nothing is going to change in the current scenario. Pakistan foreign off will continue submitting protests and drones will keep striking. Both countries should come to table and figure out a solution.
 
The drone strikes are not sanctioned by the UN, your argument has been debunked pretty much every time you have made it, and I just debunked Brennan's latest bald faced lies and deception in my post above.
If you could just point out ONE time my argument was debunked I'd be thankful. (Brennan's logic rests on the same as mine, it seems.)
 
Has the US 'immediately reported to the Security Council' its alleged 'exercise of self-defence'?
The SC took the necessary action after 9/11 when it passed UNSC 1373. Once that was done nations exercising it don't have to keep reporting back to the SC after every incident, any more than they did after every firefight in WWII.

The US conducts unilateral drone strikes because of an attitude of imperial hubris and complete disregard for international law.
If that was really the case the U.N. would be Pakistan's echo chamber, AM. Instead, Pakistan's entreaties have been met with a public, pregnant, silence. I'm the guy telling you what's wrong. It's not right that Pakistanis should be kept in the dark as to why their nation is held in equal regard as a flock of geese that keeps polluting the local pond.
 
Now they are openly saying that Drones are legal. What next?
My personal opinion is that USA wants Pakistan to remain firm on our stand of closing NATO supplies so that they can get a Bahana of stopping our aid of 3bn which is now due now for quite some time. From kerry Lugar bill they first make agreements with us of intelligence sharing and when they got their fish they put a dagger in our back and for no reason killed our 24 soldiers on the Border in cold blood. All that stories of doing covert operation on the border region doesn't makes sense at all. They are getting all their supplies from Northern Distribution Network. What's the point of forcing us when they knew we will tax them this time. If they really want NATO supplies to be open they will not be doing so many thing against us at the same time. This drones today does'nt make sense as well.I think it is time that All their Drama and Bullshit must be answered by setting firm policies.
Yes! Tomorrow they will say that its legal to kill every Pakistani like they did with the poor native Americans and almost finished their race.......:smokin:
 
The SC took the necessary action after 9/11 when it passed UNSC 1373. Once that was done nations exercising it don't have to keep reporting back to the SC after every incident, any more than they did after every firefight in WWII.
UNSCR 1373 refers back to the right of self defence in the UN Charter, which I discussed above:

Reaffirming the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence as recognized by the Charter of the United Nations as reiterated in resolution 1368 (2001)

And under the UN Charter Article 51, the US indeed has to report every instance of alleged 'Self Defence' until the UNSC addresses the issue.
If that was really the case the U.N. would be Pakistan's echo chamber, AM. Instead, Pakistan's entreaties have been met with a public, pregnant, silence. I'm the guy telling you what's wrong. It's not right that Pakistanis should be kept in the dark as to why their nation is held in equal regard as a flock of geese that keeps polluting the local pond.
Pakistan's ambassador to the UN has in fact raised the issue in the UN, but whether or not Pakistan raises the issue, the facts do not change, that the US cannot argue in favor of the legality of drone strikes based on Article 51 without implementing ALL of Article 51.

Okay, if the word "consent" is not important in this context, would you please care to explain the possible reasons causing Pakistan to still not raise the issue before the UNSC or the ICJ, at this late stage in the game?

After all, USA has given clear and consistent statements that it intends to use drone strikes as an effective tool in the war. Pakistan should know by now that its "protests" are going nowhere, so if it feels it is in the right, it should be prepared to take the matter further.

Please do keep in mind that while one may not agree with the actions of the government of Pakistan, those actions (or lack thereof) are internationally recognized to be with the due force of sovereign authority, unless you wish to argue to the contrary.

The reasoning remains the same, a desire to not escalate the conflict with the US and therefore reduce the possibility of a negotiated settlement to the issue.

Your argument is inherently flawed in that it suggests that the lack of utilization of one potential avenue of conflict resolution (UN or ICJ) somehow represents a form of 'consent' - it does not, for reasons already mentioned.

Therefore, Brennan's arguments to establish the legality of drone strikes fail because:

1. Consent: No official consent has been given by Pakistan, and Pakistan has clearly and strongly articulated its opposition to unilateral drone strikes by the US

2. Unwilling: Pakistan has offered numerous alternatives to the US: Joint drone strikes, PAF strikes, Pakistan controlled drone strikes

If you could just point out ONE time my argument was debunked I'd be thankful. (Brennan's logic rests on the same as mine, it seems.)
Brennan's logic was debunked in my posts above, so if you are arguing that your logic is the same as his, then consider your argument debunked one more time as well.
 
nothing is going to stop drone attacks except our army itself destroy them...
 
...................
The reasoning remains the same, a desire to not escalate the conflict with the US and therefore reduce the possibility of a negotiated settlement to the issue.....................

Given the clear consistency in US policy with regards to drone attacks, at some point Pakistan has to re-evaluate its desire not to escalate matters. Until that happens, all the arguments, both pro and con, are quite meaningless.

If Pakistan chooses not to do so, then it has acquiesced to the ground reality.

If Pakistan does do so, then it must be ready for a counter-response.

Quite simple, really.
 
Given the clear consistency in US policy with regards to drone attacks, at some point Pakistan has to re-evaluate its desire not to escalate matters. Until that happens, all the arguments, both pro and con, are quite meaningless.
Pakistan has various options to escalate the situation in order to get the US to stop - Pakistan has to weight the pros and cons of each option - the choice to not escalate at the current moment does not indicate 'consent', it only indicates that Pakistan is not willing to escalate and would like to continue diplomatic negotiations to resolve the issue.
 
Pakistan has various options to escalate the situation in order to get the US to stop - Pakistan has to weight the pros and cons of each option - the choice to not escalate at the current moment does not indicate 'consent', it only indicates that Pakistan is not willing to escalate and would like to continue diplomatic negotiations to resolve the issue.

Of course.

I hope that diplomatic negotiations resolve this, and other, matters affecting the bilateral relationship these days. High-level talks are continuing, and I am sure that both sides will articulate their positions well to arrive at a mutually acceptable solution that works for both sides.

In the meantime, there is not much to be gained by getting too worked up, I would suggest.

Edit: What options does Pakistan realistically have to get the US to stop drone attacks? Please elaborate if you can.
 
Respected gentlemen.

Don't you people think that the internal politics also influence the final decision on US by Pakistani authorities? A recent example is the DCC meeting immediately in the aftermath of the supreme court decision. The military there wanted a clear stance from the government, which was not forthcoming, because the government is not in a position to make a move. The absence of a clear stance by pakistan in my opinion gives the US a little window to issue these kind of statements. The army chief is making strong statements, but the executive is mum on the issue, and the US takes advantage of that void.
 
Respected gentlemen.

Don't you people think that the internal politics also influence the final decision on US by Pakistani authorities? A recent example is the DCC meeting immediately in the aftermath of the supreme court decision. The military there wanted a clear stance from the government, which was not forthcoming, because the government is not in a position to make a move. The absence of a clear stance by pakistan in my opinion gives the US a little window to issue these kind of statements. The army chief is making strong statements, but the executive is mum on the issue, and the US takes advantage of that void.

Well, internal politics on both sides play into this situation. After all, this is an election year in USA, and politics here can be as vicious as anywhere else in the world.
 
How am i putting my A$$ on fire ? I was refering to the US gov or anyone else that things it's ok to kill inccoent people while sitting in their leather chairs and relaxing .By the way you alright or high on something knock knock wake up don't try to change the story around now ! i was responding to what you wrote there is nothing to be thankful about when innocent people die in the mix .. furthermore i have way more sense then you that is why you could not even understand my simple words . There are better ways to hunt these bastards and Pakistan has offered its services but not once has the US agreed. See how would you feel if a missle is coming down on your unsenseable a$$ or someone you love tell us then what is there to be thankful about. I been here way longer then you and will beon this site much more longer then you i earned my status boy now get lost.
Why there is a need of drone attacks in your backyard?
Why terrorists are being killed in your own native region?
How US dare to attack your motherland?
Why your Govt seem to be impotent?
Why your PA seem to be impotent that can’t save their own soldiers?
Why your own innocents people being killed in your home?
Why no one would like to visit your country?
Only one answer, once you cultivate crop of terrorist and now you are bearing when they back fired. (Now got it, How you put you’re a$$ on fire?)
Now repeating for the second time, I am against any inhuman activity especially against innocent people. Practically, they would be killed unless PA or GOP takes a strong stand enough to restrict any drone attacks further. Till then, I can express my grief for innocents nothing else.
Now, regarding you gentleman, I don’t give a damn to those Elite Members unless they possess some rational thinking. Need not to tell that anyone can find a bunch of these(Don’t want to pronounce any name) exists here on PDF. Buzz off and remember, No one is perfect. Work hard!!!
 
Back
Top Bottom