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Pakistan Issues Demarche to US over Drone Strikes - US Argues Strikes Legal

It's always ethical when your own a$$ is not under fire in this case a missle from a drone unreal

But putting your own a$$ on fire is sensible?

Iam all for killing terrorist /cowards but what about the innocent lives that are lost each and everyday should we as human beings be thankful for that ?.. think about what you say and where you say it before saying such unhuman nonsense comments.

I was talking about terrorists not innocent civilians. I am against of any inhuman activity. Little common sense expected from you being an Elite Member
 
The drone strikes are not sanctioned by the UN, your argument has been debunked pretty much every time you have made it, and I just debunked Brennan's latest bald faced lies and deception in my post above.
What he says is actually correct, read the PDF here Self-Defense Targetings of Non-State Actors and Permissibility of U.S. Use of Drones in Pakistan. An extract for you
The vast majority of writers agree that an armed attack by a non-state actor on a state, its embassies, its military, or other nationals abroad can trigger the right of self-defense addressed in Article 51 of the United Nations Charter, even if selective responsive force directed against a non-state actor occurs within a foreign country. Article 51 of the Charter expressly affirms the right of a state to respond defensively “if an armed attack occurs,”4 and nothing in the language of Article 51 restricts the right to engage in self-defense actions to circumstances of armed attacks by a “state.”5 Moreover, nothing in the language of the Charter requires a conclusion lacking in common sense that a state being attacked can only defend itself within its own borders.

Nothing in the language of Article 51 of the United Nations Charter or in customary international law reflected therein or in pre-Charter practice noted in Part I requires consent of the state from which a non-state actor armed attack is emanating and on whose territory a self-defense action takes place against the nonstate actor. In fact, with respect to permissible measures of selfdefense under Article 51, a form of consent of each member of the United Nations already exists in advance by treaty. In contrast, consent generally would be required for ordinary law enforcement measures,33 but selective use of armed force in self-defense is not simplistically “law enforcement” whether the measures of selfdefense are used in time of war or relative peace.

For these reasons, with respect to U.S. use of drones in Pakistan to target al Qaeda and Taliban leaders and fighters, it is clear that the U.S. would not need the express consent of Pakistan to carry out self-defense targeting.34 It is also clear that the U.S. has the right to use drones in Pakistan under Article 51 of the Charter in self-defense to protect U.S. troops from a continual process of al Qaeda and Taliban attacks35 on U.S. military personnel and others in Afghanistan that have emanated or been directed partly from territory in Pakistan for several years during a continuing international armed conflict and when al Qaeda and Taliban fighters move back and forth across the porous border that neither country effectively controls.
 
So the UN clause also gives Pak the right to go and attack US for Salala incident , and start going into Afghanistan.

And also the right to drone Ajmal kasabs a$$?
 
The death of militant leadership is almost always revealed in the days after a strike, so there is no point in not releasing the information about who was targeted, and the US has in fact, through leaks at least, released information about which leadership was targeted.

Even in this case leaks about the identities of the militants targeted have occurred, and no 'leader' was mentioned - the target was simply called a location used by militants to assemble explosives, and the leadership of these groups is going to stay as far away from active operations as they can, which would imply no high level leadership.
Currently this is all speculation. There have been instances such as this one 15 killed in Waziristan drone strikes wherein commander-level personnel have been killed along with the "field-level" militants.
The first strike, which took place in the morning, had killed eight militants including two important commanders of the Mullah Nazir group and injured two.

The commanders were identified as Shamsullah and Amir Hamza Toji Khel. The bodies were shifted to Angoor Adda, local tribal sources told The Express Tribune.
I would wait for either the SITE group or a group affiliated with AQ or the Taliban to release information confirming the identities of the dead.
 
Although the drones have taken some innocent lives, but it doesn't seem to have an alternative. Pakistan is not taking necessary steps to eliminate terrorism hence these drone strikes. USA will never give the drone technology to Pakistan. So this drones will continue and the people of Pakistan should be thankful to USA for this great help.
 
Although the drones have taken some innocent lives, but it doesn't seem to have an alternative. Pakistan is not taking necessary steps to eliminate terrorism hence these drone strikes. USA will never give the drone technology to Pakistan. So this drones will continue and the people of Pakistan should be thankful to USA for this great help.

Since when giving operation control amount to giving technology?
Pakistan already have US made F-16, why would US hold back the drones which is far lesser tech.

By statistics, Pakistan is victim of terrorism far more than any state and their are evidence of TTP being master minded by Indian.
How can we thankful to US for violating Geneva conventions?
 
Since when giving operation control amount to giving technology?
Pakistan already have US made F-16, why would US hold back the drones which is far lesser tech.

Pakistan is asking for the drone technology so as to conduct the drone strike on its own.


By statistics, Pakistan is victim of terrorism far more than any state and their are evidence of TTP being master minded by Indian.
Did you read this Agnostic Muslim? The claim is made of Indian involvement with regards to TTP without any proof or source. I hope you'll delete this post just like you deleted mine.


How can we thankful to US for violating Geneva conventions?
Drones are Killing the terrorists too which you are not able to do. I have a sympathy for the innocent lives lost. But then you should start thinking the route cause.
 
First of all the source is unreliable Indian media are only knows how to exaggerate some thing which is not there & really know how to do massive propaganda. US drone attacks are only gate way for the birth of new terrorists. The reason why US wants to continue Drone strikes is because they want to stay in this region & they completely want to enter in this region. US have already entered from one side which is through puppet India, US is trying to enter through Pakistan & Iran but so far they have failed horribly in Afghanistan & are also failing in Pakistan, Iran is slapping US every day.

INSHAALLAH once we Pakistanis have got rid of these corrupt Politicians Pakistan will shut its door on US INSHAALLAH.
 
Killing 3 or 4 low level militants here or there is not going to put a dent in the insurgency. A strike to take out leadership of a group might be justifiable and actually make an impact in the war, but the majority of the drone strikes have taken out low level militant 'cannon fodder' - recruits who will be easily replaced by others.

Then why take the pain for no benefit? When there were hundreds of drone strikes perhaps you can afford to hit anythingwith a turban and an AK and hope, when there is one drone strike in a month you really want to make that count. 20 insugents living in the compound and a minimal strike taking out 4, its fairly safe to assume the US didnt think they were grunts knowing what would follow.
 
The entirety of Article 51 is relevant here:

Article 51

Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

Charter of the United Nations: Chapter VII: Action with Respect to Threats to the Peace, Breaches of the Peace and Acts of Agression

Has the US 'immediately reported to the Security Council' its alleged 'exercise of self-defence'?

Has Pakistan challenged the 'US exercise of self-defence report to the Security Council'?

Has the Security Council subsequently deliberated on the claims of the involved parties?

The US cannot argue in favor of the legality of drone strikes by cherry picking one section of Article 51.

its fairly safe to assume the US didnt think they were grunts knowing what would follow.
It is certainly not 'safe to assume' that the US knew the people it was targeting were grunts, since the list of 'AQ/Taliban leadership' killed in the hundreds of drone strikes so far is a very, very small percentage of the total number of people killed, combatants and innocent civilians.

Although the drones have taken some innocent lives, but it doesn't seem to have an alternative. Pakistan is not taking necessary steps to eliminate terrorism hence these drone strikes. USA will never give the drone technology to Pakistan. So this drones will continue and the people of Pakistan should be thankful to USA for this great help.
Pakistan has proposed alternatives since the Musharraf years, which the US has refused to contemplate.

1. Jointly operated drone strikes
2. PAF led air-strikes utilizing US and Pakistan provided intelligence
3. Pakistan operated drone strikes utilizing US and Pakistan provided intelligence

There is simply no justification for the argument that the US conducts unilateral drone strikes because of a 'lack of alternatives'. The US conducts unilateral drone strikes because of an attitude of imperial hubris and complete disregard for international law.
 
WASHINGTON: Undeterred by Islamabad's shrill protests about breach of its sovereignty by American Drone strikes culminating in a parliamentary resolution calling for a halt to such unmanned attacks, the US conducted yet another such operation over the weekend. The attack has virtually torpedoed Pakistan's participation in Nato's 25th summit in President Obama's hometown in Chicago on May 20-21 where far reaching decision are expected on the transition in Afghanistan and beyond.

The weekend Drone strike came after a lull of nearly a month from the previous such attack during which time Pakistan upped the ante on the issue with its parliamentary review calling for a halt to such violations of its sovereignty. On Monday, the Pakistani foreign office condemned the latest attack which was said to have killed three or four suspected terrorists operating out of an abandoned girls' school in Miramshah.

"Such attacks are in total contravention of international law and established norms of interstate relations," Pakistan's foreign office said in a statement, terming it a violation of its sovereignty. But the attack killed more than just four militants; it also demolished any pretence of consideration for Pakistan's honor and self-respect which its leaders had put at stake with a very public stand on Drone strikes.

In Washington meanwhile, the Obama administration went on the offensive, defending the Drone strikes and maintaining that they are ethical, proportional, and in keeping with US efforts to spare innocent civilians from being caught up in the crossfire.

"The constitution empowers the president to protect the nation from any imminent threat of attack," Obama's chief of counterterrorism John Brennan said on Monday without referring specifically to the weekend's strike. "It is hard to imagine a tool that can better minimize the risk to civilians than remotely piloted aircraft."

"There is absolutely nothing casual about the extraordinary care we take in making the decision to pursue an al Qaida terrorist, and the lengths to which we go to ensure precision and avoid the loss of innocent life," Brennan told a meeting at the Woodrow Wilson Center.

The immediate consequence -- which does not in the least seem to faze Washington -- of the attack is that Pakistan is likely to defer its decision to re-open the US/Nato supply route to landlocked Afghanistan. The addition of Drone injury to the insult of not proffering an apology for the Salala bombing in which Nato forces killed 24 Pakistani soldiers also means Islamabad may be forced to boycott the Nato meeting in Chicago, although Pakistani officials said no decision had been taken in this regard.

The US never made it clear if Islamabad was invited for the summit, but Pakistan's Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani was expected to attend the summit, in part as a move to resurrect his own political fortunes after adverse court verdicts linked to domestic politics. The engagement was also expected to build on the recent visit to Pakistan by US special envoy Marc Grossman. Although that trip was deemed a failure over lack of agreement on a public apology over the Salala incident, some progress was expected over the Nato supply route resumption since it is also linked to Coalition Support Funds (CDF) payments which are vital to Pakistan's financial survival.

But the latest Drone attack, a virtual slap in the face of the Pakistani parliamentary resolution, establishes the principle that President Obama enunciated in his meeting with Gilani in Seoul in March and which Brennan implicitly referred to: Washington will be mindful of Pakistani sovereignty, but not at the cost of the security of the United States and its allies.

The US has long made the case -- unevenly and sporadically -- that Islamabad cannot protest about violation of its sovereignty when it cannot, or does not or will not, act against terrorist groups that freely operate in Pakistan, in some cases with knowledge and support of its establishment. Washington is also said to have been angered by renewed attacks in Kabul by groups operating out of Pakistan.
 
But putting your own a$$ on fire is sensible?



I was talking about terrorists not innocent civilians. I am against of any inhuman activity. Little common sense expected from you being an Elite Member

How am i putting my A$$ on fire ? I was refering to the US gov or anyone else that things it's ok to kill inccoent people while sitting in their leather chairs and relaxing .By the way you alright or high on something knock knock wake up don't try to change the story around now ! i was responding to what you wrote there is nothing to be thankful about when innocent people die in the mix .. furthermore i have way more sense then you that is why you could not even understand my simple words . There are better ways to hunt these bastards and Pakistan has offered its services but not once has the US agreed. See how would you feel if a missle is coming down on your unsenseable a$$ or someone you love tell us then what is there to be thankful about. I been here way longer then you and will beon this site much more longer then you i earned my status boy now get lost.
 
John Brennan, Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism:

"As a matter of international law, the United States is in an armed conflict with al-Qaida, the Taliban and associated forces, in response to the 9/11 attacks, and we may also use force consistent with our inherent right of national self-defense," he said. "There is nothing in international law that bans the use of remotely piloted aircraft for this purpose or that prohibits us from using lethal force against our enemies outside of an active battlefield, at least when the country involved consents or is unable or unwilling to take action against the threat."
 
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