Chak Bamu
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Pakistan isn’t banana republic, it’s absurdistan
- Thread starter VCheng
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VCheng
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RAMPAGE
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VCheng
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Khafee
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This post must be for the consumption of your masters, to justify a pay raise.Sadly, such exchanges only increase my dread and foreboding.
Chak Bamu
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Not saying that at all. Its just that contrary to your view, its not all gloom & doom.
Sent from my SM-G610F using Defence.pk mobile app
Hakikat ve Hikmet
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Pak was born as a stranger, and lives like a stranger.....
Yep we should keep lip tight and don't utter a word when you can clearly see a dynastic third timer ruining future of our generations to come. Talk about airplane where we could clearly see him and his offspring making fools out of us. Sure absurd when you challenge the status quo.
india all good Pakistan all bad ......... nothing new here. Pakistan automatically is bad because india never did East Pakistan and countless other.
Intrigues are not part of Pakistani politics ............ a random woman said so, so it should be taken at its face value, no need to ask tough questions. That would be absurd.
Hell yeah stopping irrelevant people from obstructing smooth functioning of a public office is absurd. Else where
Absurd absurd absurd ............
VCheng
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Fair enough, I am willing to be educated. Can you please list three things that you feel have reasons to be optimistic about, and three things that you feel have reasons to be pessimistic about, so that we may have a rational discussion (if you are so inclined)?
VCheng
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Patently absurd steps like this abound in Pakistan's history, and past performance is a guarantee of future results in this case:
https://www.dawn.com/news/1363296/democratic-destiny
Democratic destiny
Editorial October 12, 2017
EIGHTEEN years ago today, the country was plunged into yet another disastrous experiment against the constitutional, democratic order. Pervez Musharraf became the second army chief to violate his oath to the 1973 Constitution and the fourth overall to illegally rule this country. Like the first three spells of military dictatorship, the fourth also proved disastrous — harming the country and institutions alike. The dark final days of Gen Musharraf’s rule some 10 years ago underlined the abiding problem of military rule; built on a negation of the people’s right to choose their own leaders, it will inevitably be rejected by the public itself. No amount of window dressing or self-serving arguments will change the basic reality that military rule is incompatible with the democratic principles on which this country was founded, the Constitution and the political ethos of the Pakistani people. This country’s destiny was and will remain democratic.
Undeniably, however, the democratic order stands significantly weakened today. A historic milestone, a third consecutive on-schedule election is within touching distance, but a slow-burning political crisis over the past 18 months has plunged the entire system into a state of uncertainty. At the outset of the country’s latest transition to democracy, it had been apparent that while democratic continuity is essential, the democratic project needed meaningful, sustained institutional strengthening. Amending the Constitution to remove dictatorial insertions against the spirit of democracy was a key step, but democratic institutions have been allowed to atrophy. The national clamour for accountability, for example, represents a real and just demand, and there is no legitimate reason why the country does not have stronger accountability in all institutions. Had the issue been addressed in a meaningful manner by the country’s elected representatives, the current political crisis would arguably have not been as severe. Trust in democratic institutions weakens when democrats are seen as trying to manipulate the rule of law to their advantage.
Of course, there is another side to the reality of weak democratic institutions. The democratic order in the country is only perceived as vulnerable to being overthrown because there are institutions that appear to follow their own rules and interests. Ultimately, Gen Musharraf was able to take over because a decision was made that the Constitution is, in fact, not supreme and that the intervention of certain institutions was needed to allegedly save the country from disaster. As long as that mindset exists, there will always be a threat to the democratic order in the country. In his memoir, In the Line of Fire, Gen Musharraf candidly admits that on the day after the coup, he had no idea about how to proceed or even what needed to be done. Therein lies a vital lesson: think about tomorrow before acting today; it will always be clear that democracy is the only path ahead.
Published in Dawn, October 12th, 2017
https://www.dawn.com/news/1363296/democratic-destiny
Democratic destiny
Editorial October 12, 2017
EIGHTEEN years ago today, the country was plunged into yet another disastrous experiment against the constitutional, democratic order. Pervez Musharraf became the second army chief to violate his oath to the 1973 Constitution and the fourth overall to illegally rule this country. Like the first three spells of military dictatorship, the fourth also proved disastrous — harming the country and institutions alike. The dark final days of Gen Musharraf’s rule some 10 years ago underlined the abiding problem of military rule; built on a negation of the people’s right to choose their own leaders, it will inevitably be rejected by the public itself. No amount of window dressing or self-serving arguments will change the basic reality that military rule is incompatible with the democratic principles on which this country was founded, the Constitution and the political ethos of the Pakistani people. This country’s destiny was and will remain democratic.
Undeniably, however, the democratic order stands significantly weakened today. A historic milestone, a third consecutive on-schedule election is within touching distance, but a slow-burning political crisis over the past 18 months has plunged the entire system into a state of uncertainty. At the outset of the country’s latest transition to democracy, it had been apparent that while democratic continuity is essential, the democratic project needed meaningful, sustained institutional strengthening. Amending the Constitution to remove dictatorial insertions against the spirit of democracy was a key step, but democratic institutions have been allowed to atrophy. The national clamour for accountability, for example, represents a real and just demand, and there is no legitimate reason why the country does not have stronger accountability in all institutions. Had the issue been addressed in a meaningful manner by the country’s elected representatives, the current political crisis would arguably have not been as severe. Trust in democratic institutions weakens when democrats are seen as trying to manipulate the rule of law to their advantage.
Of course, there is another side to the reality of weak democratic institutions. The democratic order in the country is only perceived as vulnerable to being overthrown because there are institutions that appear to follow their own rules and interests. Ultimately, Gen Musharraf was able to take over because a decision was made that the Constitution is, in fact, not supreme and that the intervention of certain institutions was needed to allegedly save the country from disaster. As long as that mindset exists, there will always be a threat to the democratic order in the country. In his memoir, In the Line of Fire, Gen Musharraf candidly admits that on the day after the coup, he had no idea about how to proceed or even what needed to be done. Therein lies a vital lesson: think about tomorrow before acting today; it will always be clear that democracy is the only path ahead.
Published in Dawn, October 12th, 2017
Secur
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Monsieur Munto, nonsensical and vulgar - as he may sound to the ordinary, hyper-stagnant, ignorant, self-righteous and uncomprehending out there, was a man of extremely high caliber whose writing was beyond the mental capacity or understanding of ninety percent of the population at that time and even today, because they were/are immersed and almost drowned in their own insecurities/vulnerabilities and understood the self-reflection and the commentary on the prevalent conditions in the society as an attack on themselves, the religion and their ancestors. See, Senor Munto wasn't reluctant to speak the truth or criticize when others preferred to keep silent for various reasons including expediency nor was he interested in being a smart-*** trying to score brownie points for a few random "cheerings" or "likes". Mr Munto had a deep understanding of the matters, which is why he rarely (if ever) indulged in attacking the messenger and not the message, as is the norm with many Pakistanis, over here.
What I am saying is that he's not exactly a man, who's name should be used so easily and conveniently, for personal attacks. May Allah be pleased with him and increase his ranks in the paradise. Amen.
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VCheng
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VCheng
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The absurdity of the Army lecturing civilians on how to better run the economy is not lost on anyone, is it? 
https://www.dawn.com/news/1363418/militarys-view-of-the-economy
Military’s view of the economy
Editorial Updated October 13, 2017
The big picture analysis that was presented is shared by most independent analysts and economists.
Macroeconomic stabilisation has given way to serious macro concerns about the health of the economy — what army chief Gen Qamar Bajwa is reported to have said in Karachi on Wednesday is not in much dispute.
Indeed, Gen Bajwa attempted an even-handed assessment by appreciating the strides the PML-N government has taken towards improving the country’s infrastructure and electricity problems. And while the comment regarding sky-high debts may be simplistic, the government is struggling to explain the sustainability of the debt burden it has accumulated.
The state of the economy is very much a case of mixed signals with a triple threat — circular debt, the external position and the fiscal deficit — potentially reversing all the gains of the stabilisation achieved in the early years of this government. Indeed, rational analysts would suggest that unless urgent remedial steps are taken, the familiar embrace of the IMF may become inevitable.
To a general analysis of the state of the economy can be added a very specific problem: Finance Minister Ishaq Dar. The minister’s accountability problems are an undeniable distraction compounded by the fact that they are tied to the political and legal fate of the Sharif family.
Considering Mr Dar’s closeness to Nawaz Sharif and his role as political fire-fighter for the party boss, there is simply no way that he can be giving the affairs of the finance ministry anything more than a fraction of the attention they deserve. There is also a problem of Mr Dar being unable or unwilling to recognise that his prescription for economic growth and stability is no longer working.
There is near-universal agreement that the exchange rate must be allowed to adjust downwards, circular debt addressed, the fiscal deficit reined in and a realistic plan for shoring up reserves drawn up. But Mr Dar appears unable to see beyond matters of personal prestige.
For all the challenges presented by the management of the economy, however, there is a problem with the forum in which the military leadership has chosen to take up the matter. Such concerns are best communicated directly to the government, and under Prime Minister Shahid Khaqan Abbasi there have been regular meetings of the civil-military leadership to raise such matters. Indeed, given Mr Abbasi’s expertise, the economy can be discussed in more detail if necessary than under his predecessor. Were any such attempts made?
The problem with public comments is that they have the potential to be misinterpreted, raising questions about whether institutions are willing to work within their own domains. As Gen Bajwa rightly noted, true national security must be understood in an economic context too. But heed must also be paid to democratic stability.
Published in Dawn, October 13th, 2017
https://www.dawn.com/news/1363418/militarys-view-of-the-economy
Military’s view of the economy
Editorial Updated October 13, 2017
The big picture analysis that was presented is shared by most independent analysts and economists.
Macroeconomic stabilisation has given way to serious macro concerns about the health of the economy — what army chief Gen Qamar Bajwa is reported to have said in Karachi on Wednesday is not in much dispute.
Indeed, Gen Bajwa attempted an even-handed assessment by appreciating the strides the PML-N government has taken towards improving the country’s infrastructure and electricity problems. And while the comment regarding sky-high debts may be simplistic, the government is struggling to explain the sustainability of the debt burden it has accumulated.
The state of the economy is very much a case of mixed signals with a triple threat — circular debt, the external position and the fiscal deficit — potentially reversing all the gains of the stabilisation achieved in the early years of this government. Indeed, rational analysts would suggest that unless urgent remedial steps are taken, the familiar embrace of the IMF may become inevitable.
To a general analysis of the state of the economy can be added a very specific problem: Finance Minister Ishaq Dar. The minister’s accountability problems are an undeniable distraction compounded by the fact that they are tied to the political and legal fate of the Sharif family.
Considering Mr Dar’s closeness to Nawaz Sharif and his role as political fire-fighter for the party boss, there is simply no way that he can be giving the affairs of the finance ministry anything more than a fraction of the attention they deserve. There is also a problem of Mr Dar being unable or unwilling to recognise that his prescription for economic growth and stability is no longer working.
There is near-universal agreement that the exchange rate must be allowed to adjust downwards, circular debt addressed, the fiscal deficit reined in and a realistic plan for shoring up reserves drawn up. But Mr Dar appears unable to see beyond matters of personal prestige.
For all the challenges presented by the management of the economy, however, there is a problem with the forum in which the military leadership has chosen to take up the matter. Such concerns are best communicated directly to the government, and under Prime Minister Shahid Khaqan Abbasi there have been regular meetings of the civil-military leadership to raise such matters. Indeed, given Mr Abbasi’s expertise, the economy can be discussed in more detail if necessary than under his predecessor. Were any such attempts made?
The problem with public comments is that they have the potential to be misinterpreted, raising questions about whether institutions are willing to work within their own domains. As Gen Bajwa rightly noted, true national security must be understood in an economic context too. But heed must also be paid to democratic stability.
Published in Dawn, October 13th, 2017
truthseer
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Firstly, I disagree with a lot of what @Syed.Ali.Haider has written here.
But......
Is this now allowed on PDF? You can use abusive language against people for absolutely no reason? I thought the Senior Cafe specifically was supposed to be about better language than that.
And yes, I'm sorry to say this in public, but even if action was taken, those posts with personal attacks should be removed.
There is a way to attack 99% of what he posted without even referencing the person himself. Maybe people here should learn the difference
But......
Is this now allowed on PDF? You can use abusive language against people for absolutely no reason? I thought the Senior Cafe specifically was supposed to be about better language than that.
And yes, I'm sorry to say this in public, but even if action was taken, those posts with personal attacks should be removed.
There is a way to attack 99% of what he posted without even referencing the person himself. Maybe people here should learn the difference
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