What's new

Pakistan Is Taking a Dark Turn. It's Time for a New USA Policy.

Pakistan only has 8% of GDP coming from export while China is 20% and USA herself is 12%
Which mean any attack on tariff is meaningless to Pakistan.
The only place for attack is Western debt which is guarantee by China.
 
.
Hi,

Pakistan's nucs mean nothing to the US now---. Each and everyone of them has been tracked---located and accounted for---.

The US can take them out and NEUTER them even before the main force moves out top protect them---.
Never underestimate the american military might---.
Sir i agree with your thesis but If they could they would have done it by now.
 
.
This is a joke. Bhutto said "eat grass to get nukes". If only he knew that after getting nukes we would still have people behaving like weaklings he would said let's stick to kebabs, karai, pilau, zarda. I guess there is no therepy for cowardice.

On the subject of nukes. However efficient US is it can never guarantee that if it came to it they could take out every Pak nuke. This only happens in movies. In the real world there is too much slip between the teacup and lips. No US chief could give a US President guarantee that he could take out every Pak nuke. He might say "most can be taken out". Therefore US would face a probably or possible nuclear attack against it's interests. In addition Pakistan could easily transfer nukes to countries hostile to US like Iran. A sort of replay of AQ Khan v2.0. The United States would sober up and never face this nightmare. It would seek politcal solution with Pakistan.

Iran does not even have nukes but do you notice a whole raft of countries have been taken down by US but Iran despite the rhetoric has thus far not been attacked. The reason is Iran is no walk over. The Yanks know this.
there is a difference between cowardice and foolishness
 
.
Pakistan Is Taking a Dark Turn. It's Time for a New US Policy.

Pakistanis went to the polls last month for elections to choose their provincial and national leaders, and the results were disturbing.

Imran Khan—a 65-year-old former cricket star turned Islamo-nationalist politician—was declared the winner as the country’s new prime minister. His Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf party will be the majority forming a coalition in the national assembly.

The results have not passed without controversy, however. The months leading up to the election were rife with serious concerns, and the results are indicative of significant issues that point to Washington’s need for a serious reassessment of its relationship with Islamabad.

For several years now, well-founded accusations of complicity in incubating and supporting terrorism have existed against the Pakistani government by the United States, India, Afghanistan, and even certain domestic constituencies within the country itself.

At the beginning of this year, the State Department immediately suspended more than $250 million worth of security aid to Pakistan. The State Department cited the South Asian nation’s “failure to take decisive action” against various regional terrorist organizations, including the Haqqani Network and Tehreek-e-Taliban and its material support for such groups.

Those accusations were further vindicated in June when Pakistan was placed on the Financial Action Task Force’s “gray” monitoring list owing to concerns over terrorist financing.

Prior to its placement on the “gray” list, Pakistan made a move that appeared to be in accordance with the need for decisive action against domestic terrorist organizations and their affiliates.

The Election Commission of Pakistan ruled the Milli Muslim League political party ineligible to run in the July election, thereby barring it from holding political office.

The Milli Muslim League was launched in 2017 by Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the political arm of the notorious Lashkar-e-Taiba whose co-founder, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, is the known mastermind of the Nov. 26, 2008, attacks in Mumbai.

The action was taken by Pakistan only after the U.S. included the Milli Muslim League as a part of Lashkar-e-Taiba’s designation as a Foreign Terror Organization, while several of the Milli Muslim League’s candidates merely switched parties or ran independently as a means of circumventing the ban, moves that the Pakistani government did not act against.

The Pakistani government not only fails to take decisive action against domestic terrorist entities, it routinely engages in the opposite through implicit—as well as explicit—overtures of tolerance toward such entities. In June, the Pakistani government lifted a ban on Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat chief Maulana Ahmed Ludhianvi, unfreezing the movement’s financial assets and allowing its leader to purchase firearms and travel abroad.

The Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat—formerly the Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan—is an ultraconservative Deobandi organization that has been designated a terrorist entity by the United Kingdom and was by the Pakistani government prior to the ban being lifted in June.

The Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat has a close affiliation with the Kashmiri terrorist outfit Jaish-e-Mohammad, and its splinter group Lashkar-e-Jhangvi is responsible for a multitude of terrorist attacks in Pakistan, including the 2013 attack in Quetta that killed more than 200, predominantly Shias.

Ludhianvi has long been known as a radical Sunni extremist, who the Pakistani government for several years had suspected of being linked to terrorist organizations through his role with Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan.

Another major component of ongoing concern is Pakistan’s military establishment, an entity that has directly ruled for approximately half of the nation’s existence, and its known relationships with several homegrown jihadi organizations.

The results of this election represent only the second civilian-to-civilian power transfer in the history of Pakistan’s existence, but reports abounded of the military’s attempt to forcibly influence certain aspects of the vote.

Pakistani soldiers created an intimidating presence with their significant numbers at polling stations across the country, and they were given broad powers to prosecute perceived “corruption” crimes on the spot at their personal discretion.

The military’s interference was also observed in media crackdowns, where censorship or shutdown was threatened toward any outlet critical of the military establishment.

The newest concern on the U.S. radar should be the national election’s biggest victor: Khan and his Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf party.

Khan secured his place as Pakistan’s next prime minister in the election, while his party won 116 of 267 seats to become the majority in the next ruling coalition of the national parliament.

Khan and his party have said many of the right things, and their normative appeal emanates from several sources: the staunch anti-corruption platform on which he and the party campaigned; the idea to transform Pakistan into an Islamic welfare state; and Khan’s personification as a devout Muslim.

Khan’s well-documented association with elements of Islamist radicalism, however, makes for the continuation of an unsettling reality in Pakistan.

As an ethnic Pashtun and Sharia stalwart, Khan has voiced strict support for Pakistan’s blasphemy laws, and he sympathized with the Taliban on a multitude of occasions throughout his political career, earning him the nickname “Taliban Khan” in the process.

In February, Khan’s government in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa provided hundreds of millions of Pakistani rupees in grant funding to the Darul Uloom Haqqania, nicknamed the “University of Jihad” and the alma mater of several terrorist leaders from the Haqqani Network, al-Qaeda, and the Taliban, including the latter’s infamous Mullah Omar.

More recently, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf inducted Fazlur Rehman Khalil, a U.S.-designated terrorist and leader of Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, into its ranks in a move on par with many of Khan’s documented associations.

Islamist radicals openly running for office, the military’s strongarm influence and actions, and the fact that the big winner of this election is a military-approved terrorist apologist who supports extreme blasphemy laws all demonstrate a cause for serious concern over a country that is currently a major U.S. ally in the region.

The “Islamist radical” aspect of this reality in Pakistan presents a significant physical threat to U.S. personnel and allied Afghan forces in the region, given that these radicals are the same terrorist entities that the U.S. has fought against since the conflict in Afghanistan began in 2001.

Along with the military’s behavior, the Islamist radicalism aspect also presents notable concern over the normative consequences associated with legitimizing such destructive, anti-democratic ideologies and comportment in a nuclear-capable country as unstable as Pakistan.

The issues outlined here demonstrate the need for a serious review of the United States’ foreign policy toward Pakistan.

These issues are merely the most recent offenses committed by the Pakistanis in what is a detrimental pattern of behavior observable for many years now. There has been very little to demonstrate that Pakistan is ready to be a true friend to the United States, and the foreseeable future looks quite bleak in this regard.

It’s time for America to change its Pakistan policy. It’s time for the U.S. government to revoke the Islamic Republic’s major non-NATO ally status.

Source
It looks like it was written in indian foreign office.
 
.
Hi,

Pakistan's nucs mean nothing to the US now---. Each and everyone of them has been tracked---located and accounted for---.

The US can take them out and NEUTER them even before the main force moves out top protect them---.

Never underestimate the american military might---.

With respect i have to add that if Uncle bully sam is aware of Pak nukes then they also knew the location of N.korean nukes but still failed to do anything.

Kim sent one missile test flying over japan still they didnt do anything. What we see here is trump is engaging kim in talks. While the countries you aforementioned didnt have deadly toys hence destroyed. Bashar is lucky he have russia
 
.
They were willing to strike at DPRK not long ago. Were you paying attention? I can show you videos and explain entire chain-of-events.

Do you know that Kim Jong-Un actually wrote a letter to Donald Trump, to start negotiations?

Israel has BMDS in place, and it works. US can reinforce its defenses before taking action against Pakistan.

Please come out the shell of self-assumed invincibility. Pakistan is no superpower.
Sir i agree with you but bmds are and will be an unreliable protection against dozens of nuclear tipped missiles. Back in 2001 we had a dozen nukes ready with fissile material for a few dozen more now we have hundreds of them with hundreds of delivery systems. Why did they let us do that. It is 10 times more difficult to denuclearise pakistan now then it was in 2001. They have an interest in keeping pakistan a nuclear state. To keep india in check and under their influence. I may be totally wrong though.
Russia and china does this too use Pakistan card against India
 
Last edited:
.
My thesis is that it is indian irrational obsession with Pakistan which is directly and indirectly keeping pakistan a nuclear power.
@LeGenD @MastanKhan
And yes it may be absolutely bonkers
 
.
pakistan is the knob which they turn to get india's attention with Pakistan denuclearised that knob will cease to function.
 
.
And a cheap one too it doesn't involve sanctions
Or diplomatic/economic disruption.
 
Last edited:
. .
Sir i agree with you but bmds are and will be an unreliable protection against dozens of nuclear tipped missiles. Back in 2001 we had a dozen nukes ready with fissile material for a few dozen more now we have hundreds of them with hundreds of delivery systems. Why did they let us do that. It is 10 times more difficult to denuclearise pakistan now then it was in 2001. They have an interest in keeping pakistan a nuclear state. To keep india in check and under their influence. I may be totally wrong though.
Russia and china does this too use Pakistan card against India
Fawad bhai,

Israel is a fairly small piece of land to shield. BMDS are becoming very advanced and capable over time. People are simply lacking in awareness.

To give you can idea; a THAAD battery will feature 6 - 9 TEL and each TEL is armed with 8 interceptors. Each interceptor is maneuverable and hypersonic, and feature onboard homing guidance to steer in the direction of an incoming target and achieve HTK. And we are looking at the total of 48 - 72 interceptors - depending upon the size of battery. THAAD is also capable of distinguishing potential countermeasures from actual warhead. It has a superb testing record and has defeated BM up to IRBM-class in range and also with countermeasures.

AN/TPY-2 AESA radar of THAAD operate in X-Band frequency and offer detection, discrimination and tracking coverage of potential targets at up to 1000 KM distance from its location (120 degree radius), which is sufficient to alert its interceptor suite well in advance.

In a hypothetical scenario, how many ballistic missiles can Pakistan spare for Israel while contending with US? We need Shaheen-III MRBM at minimum, and these aren't Suzuki Mehran which can be mass produced in view of the expenses of the entire military machine and limited budget. In-fact, TEL are more costly to build than the ballistic missiles they are supposed to carry.

---

Yes, our nuclear strike options and capabilities have come a long way since 2001 but we do not have hundreds of nukes and delivery platforms yet. Nukes aren't bullets which can produced in huge numbers per month. There are significant capacity constraints in producing them. Read this article: https://carnegieendowment.org/2016/06/30/pakistan-s-nuclear-force-structure-in-2025-pub-63912

Brigadier Naeem Salik is a former member of SPD - the agency which is responsible for managing Pakistani strategic force.

Secondly, we have different types of ballistic missiles in our inventory, ranging from NASR (~60 KM) to Shaheen-III (~2750 KM). Our delivery options are constrained accordingly. As I pointed out earlier, it is convenient for us to strike at Indian cities, and armored thrusts into Pakistan (COLD START), and this is our official nuclear strike posture. Striking at Israel is not feasible because we will have to get through its defenses first, and if a THAAD battery is stationed there - forget it.

We are trying to develop a 2nd strike capability by equipping our submarines with SLCM (torpedo tube launch mechanism) but this will take some years. We have only two Agosta 90B submarines in our inventory at present which are being modified to accomodate SLCM by Turkey. We will receive four Type 041 submarines from China by 2023, and we will manufacture four more by 2028. Therefore, we will have 10 submarines in total to ensure our 2nd strike capability by 2028 with SLCM.

However, what happens if USN transform much of the Indian Ocean into a kill zone? IN will also join the show, mind you.

USN have significant defenses against cruise missiles and so-called ASBM, and numerous assets to hunt submarines. Their SURTASS vessels, in particular, offer extremely long range surveillance capability against submarines and can expose even the quietest of submarines.

A single Arleigh Burke class destroyer have 90 vertical launch tubes, and separate torpedo tubes and other forms of mounted defenses including a pair of helicopters. The onboard Aegis radar system offer 360 degree coverage of potential threats and can identify/discriminate/track over 100 targets at a time in real-time. Just visualize the firepower it brings to the table all on its own. It can intercept scores of cruise missiles on its own, and USN is operating 65 of these at present. More will join the fleet soon. USN - on the whole - is continously evolving in its capabilities. Their is literally no comparison between USN and PN in any dimension.

Please be realistic. I am not saying that Pakistan is an easy prey, but Pakistani public tend to go overboard while assessing Pakistani options in a war with a vastly superior foe. Awareness nahin hain yahan. Leikin saab bewaqoof nahin hain. Mein openly fair baat karta hoon. Jiss ko masla hai - mery taraf sey ho.

India kee hud taak baat samaj mein aate hai. US is beyond our capacity to handle; their is too much disparity in the defense budget and blah blah of the two.

Best option is to avoid confrontation with them, and handle them diplomatically. Build a long list of allies so that it becomes difficult for any country to isolate Pakistan and victimize it.

More importantly; aid nahin but trade.
 
Last edited:
.
Usa shoould stop beating drums of aid we have waced their afghan war contaibers pirt charges infastructure which they used are unmatchable and usa cant even pay for our death toll of army and citizens

We do whars good for pak your interest are not any interest for us in this region we decide whatcwe do take care if you borderscwhere you live do notvdictate us anymore
 
.
Fawad bhai,

Israel is a fairly small piece of land to shield. BMDS are becoming very advanced and capable over time. People are simply lacking in awareness.

To give you can idea; a THAAD battery will feature 6 - 9 TEL and each TEL is armed with 8 interceptors. Each interceptor is maneuverable and hypersonic, and feature onboard homing guidance to steer in the direction of an incoming target and achieve HTK. And we are looking at the total of 48 - 72 interceptors - depending upon the size of battery. THAAD is also capable of distinguishing potential countermeasures from actual warhead. It has a superb testing record and has defeated BM up to IRBM-class in range and also with countermeasures.

AN/TPY-2 AESA radar of THAAD operate in X-Band frequency and offer detection, discrimination and tracking coverage of potential targets at up to 1000 KM distance from its location (120 degree radius), which is sufficient to alert its interceptor suite well in advance.

In a hypothetical scenario, how many ballistic missiles can Pakistan spare for Israel while contending with US? We need Shaheen-III MRBM at minimum, and these aren't Suzuki Mehran which can be mass produced in view of the expenses of the entire military machine and limited budget. In-fact, TEL are more costly to build than the ballistic missiles they are supposed to carry.

---

Yes, our nuclear strike options and capabilities have come a long way since 2001 but we do not have hundreds of nukes and delivery platforms yet. Nukes aren't bullets which can produced in huge numbers per month. There are significant capacity constraints in producing them. Read this article: https://carnegieendowment.org/2016/06/30/pakistan-s-nuclear-force-structure-in-2025-pub-63912

Brigadier Naeem Salik is a former member of SPD - the agency which is responsible for managing Pakistani strategic force.

Secondly, we have different types of ballistic missiles in our inventory, ranging from NASR (~60 KM) to Shaheen-III (~2750 KM). Our delivery options are constrained accordingly. As I pointed out earlier, it is convenient for us to strike at Indian cities, and armored thrusts into Pakistan (COLD START), and this is our official nuclear strike posture. Striking at Israel is not feasible because we will have to get through its defenses first, and if a THAAD battery is stationed there - forget it.

We are trying to develop a 2nd strike capability by equipping our submarines with SLCM (torpedo tube launch mechanism) but this will take some years. We have only two Agosta 90B submarines in our inventory at present which are being modified to accomodate SLCM by Turkey. We will receive four Type 041 submarines from China by 2023, and we will manufacture four more by 2028. Therefore, we will have 10 submarines in total to ensure our 2nd strike capability by 2028 with SLCM.

However, what happens if USN transform much of the Indian Ocean into a kill zone? IN will also join the show, mind you.

USN have significant defenses against cruise missiles and so-called ASBM, and numerous assets to hunt submarines. Their SURTASS vessels, in particular, offer extremely long range surveillance capability against submarines and can expose even the quietest of submarines.

A single Arleigh Burke class destroyer have 90 vertical launch tubes, and separate torpedo tubes and other forms of mounted defenses including a pair of helicopters. The onboard Aegis radar system offer 360 degree coverage of potential threats and can identify/discriminate/track over 100 targets at a time in real-time. Just visualize the firepower it brings to the table all on its own. It can intercept scores of cruise missiles on its own, and USN is operating 65 of these at present. More will join the fleet soon. USN - on the whole - is continously evolving in its capabilities. Their is literally no comparison between USN and PN in any dimension.

Please be realistic. I am not saying that Pakistan is an easy prey, but Pakistani public tend to go overboard while assessing Pakistani options in a war with a vastly superior foe. Awareness nahin hain yahan. Leikin saab bewaqoof nahin hain. Mein openly fair baat karta hoon. Jiss ko masla hai - mery taraf sey ho.

India kee hud taak baat samaj mein aate hai. US is beyond our capacity to handle; their is too much disparity in the defense budget and blah blah of the two.

Best option is to avoid confrontation with them, and handle them diplomatically. Build a long list of allies so that it becomes difficult for any country to isolate Pakistan and victimize it.

More importantly; aid nahin but trade.
my advice to my beloved leader imran khan and to my beloved fellow countrymen is that we should not embarrassed usa publicly as we did by that tweet lest we find ourselves in an avoidable(unnecessary) but insurmountable economic difficulties.
 
.
my advice to my beloved leader imran khan and to my beloved fellow countrymen is that we should not embarrassed usa publicly as we did by that tweet lest we find ourselves in an avoidable(unnecessary) but insurmountable economic difficulties.
I think Pakistan FO didn't want to embarass US Department of State, but pointed out its mistake in good faith. Although the message could be conveyed in a better tone.

SMQ's press conference for US was very sound and articulate. SMQ pointed out that Pompeo and IK had a fairly good and positive conversation. This is good.

It is just that some people get carried away in these exchanges.
 
. .

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom