Pakistan is America's front line ally in killing Afghan Muslims,Lt.Gen Shahid Aziz

[-xXx-]

It is as per your national interests then it is the "principled" decision.

Nopes. It's pragmatic decision. Morality, ethics and principles need not to be part of it.

I hope you are not mixing principles in ethical sense with principles in guidelines sense. In that case, worst of the acts could be termed "principled".

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

You guys should change Your thinking and adopt modern International Law.

Killing one innocent person is not always equivalent to killing another innocent person.
It is a hell of a difference in a suicide bomber blowing himself up in a hospital killing ten civilians,
and a tank crew firing at a building containing enemy active combatants, killing ten civilians.
Armed forces should try to avoid killing civilians unneccessarily.
TTP and the like rejoice in the deaths of innocent civilians.

If TTP act fight amongst the civilians, civilians will die, and that
is because TTP do not separate themselves from civilians.

They have the responsibility for the deaths. No need to blame Pakistan.

 

[R Wing]

Allah forgive us.
I guess the history does not begin AFTER Pakistan started hosting Afghan refugees.
How long will we keep on repeating our side of the story ?
Here is what Lt.Gen Shahid Aziz has to say regarding Pakistan's blunders w.r.t Afghanistan.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=874069666071310&id=100004048537108


p.s I think it would be shameful if we start hurling insults at the General for coming out clean instead of introspecting what Pak Army has been doing.

The General is confusing a few things.

Civilian casualties of drone strikes are unacceptable and very, very unfortunate. They do fuel male members of families who have lost loved ones to take up arms against Pakistan (for complicity) and America (for aggression). I remember Baitullah Mehsud saying that some of the early drone strikes were a huge blessing for the TTP, which was initially having trouble recruiting in FATA.

Mush, the dimwit, swallowed more US demands than even the Americans had expected. That's the sign of a pathetic leader. From that point on, our leaders have not managed to leverage the relationship properly. I am not saying that we should set a collision course with the world's only hyper-power, but rather that we keep a shred of self-respect and patriotism in tact when managing the relationship.

But to say that every TTP attack against Pakistani civilians and soldiers is based on revenge (for drone strikes etc) is pushing it. Many higher-ups in the TTP ranks initially had not lost loved ones to drone strikes --- they were just people who took up arms and challenged the writ of the state --- and like any criminals, they should have been destroyed.

Lastly, I am assuming he is referring to the Afghan Taliban when he says "Afghans" --- but the Afghan Taliban themselves have the blood of thousands of Afghanis on their hands. And, aren't we allegedly giving them some protection / shelter to preserve our interests in Afghanistan? Things have evolved considerably from the early days of 9/11, and a lot of Generals from that period don't seem to have caught up.

 

[Windjammer]

So basically he's saying we shouldn't have intervened to stop the likes of Taliban in carrying out their cross border activities and should have allowed US to deal with it, in other words openly allow the Americans to carry out operations inside Pakistan.
One hell of a way to protect your sovereignty and showing love for the miscreants.

 

[BetterPakistan]

This is all crap.

In a war one don't see whether the other one is muslim or anyone else.
Secondly, did Afghanistan remembered Pakistan assistance to them in Soviet War when firing at Pakistan Border?
Did Afghanistan remembered those 3.5 million refugees whom Pakistan is bearing when firing at Pakistan Border?

Afghanistan is a namak haram nation and we shall go for a aggressive policy with them and kill TTP chief group in afghanistan.

As far as kargil war is concerned everyone know we won. Everyone remembers "Gen Kishan Pal" (a lieutenant gen of kargil by India) accepted Indian defeat. We remember Indian Army Chief VK singh accepted and praised musharraf bravery. Gen VK singh openly accepted that Musharraf crossed LOC and entered in India before kargil war and we couldn't stop him and he (musharraf) spent a night in Indian Occupied kashmir.
It was accepted by India that Point 5353 (previously controlled by India) was captured by Pak during kargil and is still under Pakistan control even after 16 years of war and despite repetitive adventures India couldn't took it from Pakistan.

 

[Winchester]

The reason we are in this mess in the first place is because of this type of thinking within the army in the 80's and the 90's.

 

[somebozo]

pakistan army needs stalin style cleanup..

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

what Pakistan did, it did for its own security like all the nations do....what were we supposed to do? support a known terrorist regime against the unified power of west? for what? afghans have never been friendly to us.... and yes "muslims killing muslims" to me is a dead horse that the ttp,al qaeda, daesh and their likes love to beat when they are getting their collective asses kicked to hell and back....and why is it that they dont mind blowing up fellow muslims in schools, bazars etc but when those muslims retaliate they try to emotionally blackmail using the "muslims vs muslim" bull****....i aint sorry for refusing to share your delusions.....


exactly....it was do or die for Pakistan so sorry if we screwed over a terrorist regime for our national interest.....we'll be happy to do it again if need be


im sorry but when has Pak Army been to vietnam, yemen,iraq, tibet etc?

Well to the 'unified power of the west' we are still supporting those same terrorists in Afg.
What have they done except crying out loud ?

So Pakistan should have stood with Afghanistan while all the countries including all the muslim countries were standing with America. Is this what you want to say?

What I want to say is that our Generals shouldn't have prostrated in front of the US at that time in the face of empty threats like "We'll bomb you to stone age"..
We are still supporting the same Afghan Talis with defiance and the US is doing nothing except bithing over it.Had they possessd the testicular fortitude to bomb us,they would done it long ago on the basis of us being a 'dangerous nuclear state'.
We could have played double games back then like we're doing now but prostrating in front of uncle Sam seemed a convenient option to Musharraf.

 

[Zarvan]

Allah forgive us.
I guess the history does not begin AFTER Pakistan started hosting Afghan refugees.
How long will we keep on repeating our side of the story ?
Here is what Lt.Gen Shahid Aziz has to say regarding Pakistan's blunders w.r.t Afghanistan.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=874069666071310&id=100004048537108


p.s I think it would be shameful if we start hurling insults at the General for coming out clean instead of introspecting what Pak Army has been doing.

The betrayal done by Musharraf still haunts Army and other forces. I know Army people and Musharraf is one of the most hated figure. We have to eliminate Taliban but we also have eliminate those policies and betrayals which led to TTP formation.

 

[Areesh]

What I want to say is that our Generals shouldn't have prostrated in front of the US at that time in the face of empty threats like "We'll bomb you to stone age"..
We are still supporting the same Afghan Talis with defiance and the US is doing nothing except bithing over it.Had they possessd the testicular fortitude to bomb us,they would done it long ago on the basis of us being a 'dangerous nuclear state'.
We could have played double games back then like we're doing now but prostrating in front of uncle Sam seemed a convenient option to Musharraf.

So Pakistan is supporting afghan taliban. How? Prove it. Pakistan didn't prostrate in front of anyone. It just joined the international community against terrorism. As for double games. You think Americans are completely dumb and they wouldn't have understood our double games? And what if USA would have imposed economic and military sanctions in response to our "double games". What if UN would have declared Pakistan a terrorist state?

You think those stupid double games would have saved us? Bhai stop living in dreams. Americans are clever enough to understand any double game. They are just blaming us for their failure in Afghanistan. Nobody wants to accept that he failed. Same goes for USA. It failed to build a stable country in Afghanistan and it wants a scapegoat. And Pakistan is perfect option for that.

What Pakistan did post 9/11 was the most suitable thing to do. Generals like Shahid Aziz are a disgrace to this country. You should stop following them.

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

So basically he's saying we shouldn't have intervened to stop the likes of Taliban in carrying out their cross border activities and should have allowed US to deal with it, in other words openly allow the Americans to carry out operations inside Pakistan.
One hell of a way to protect your sovereignty and showing love for the miscreants.

Windy bhai kia khaq SOVRANITY reh gay is mulk ki.
So to save our sovereignty,it was right/justified to tag team with the US and aid plus watch Afghanistan becoming a hell hole.

 

[Apprentice]

But didn't most Afghans also support US Invasion???

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brasiapacificra/155.php?lb=bras&pnt=155&nid=&id=

 

[544_delta]

Well to the 'unified power of the west' we are still supporting those same terrorists in Afg.
What have they done except crying out loud ?


What I want to say is that our Generals shouldn't have prostrated in front of the US at that time in the face of empty threats like "We'll bomb you to stone age"..
We are still supporting the same Afghan Talis with defiance and the US is doing nothing except bithing over it.Had they possessd the testicular fortitude to bomb us,they would done it long ago on the basis of us being a 'dangerous nuclear state'.
We could have played double games back then like we're doing now but prostrating in front of uncle Sam seemed a convenient option to Musharraf.

it couldn't have been done back then....america hadn't realized at that time what a clusterf*ck afghanistan would turn out to be. 9/11 was still fresh in their public's mind and they wanted blood..so they were ready to go in with guns blazing and it would have been stupid to stand in their way....its different now of course as taliban have proved themselves a formidable foe and forced the U.S to become conciliatory...... nations dont operate on bro code

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

The General is confusing a few things.

Civilian casualties of drone strikes are unacceptable and very, very unfortunate. They do fuel male members of families who have lost loved ones to take up arms against Pakistan (for complicity) and America (for aggression). I remember Baitullah Mehsud saying that some of the early drone strikes were a huge blessing for the TTP, which was initially having trouble recruiting in FATA.

Civilian casualties of drone strikes are inevitable, as long as TTP hides among civilians.
What is unacceptable is attacking a civilian house, when You are aware that there are
no militants present and it is not used for military purposes.

 

[Tiger Genie]

all if & but aside, Afghans know very well that Pakistan almost never actually assist them and look upon Afghanistan as a would be vassal state. A sterling example of this is when Pakistan just shut off all supplies to Afghanistan with essential goods left rotting on thousands of trucks. No wonder Afghans have come to view Pakistan as a blackmailing neighbor who does everything to exploit their landlocked status to extract maximum profits.And the means which Pakistan employs for such usury are not merely commercial or above board.

How can Pakistan expect Afghans to have anything to do with them when both their ends and means are wrong.