Pakistan Intelligence Setup...A Mess?Your thoughts & observations..!

[Wrath]

I noticed a lot of anomalies, lack of coordination & integration.
1. Pakistan does not have any thing like US National Intelligence Directorate Where all intelligence from various agencies/Intelligence community are fed & analysed.
2. ISI does brief PM time to time.
3. What is the role of ISI?Does it look strategically around the world or has singular focus on India?Is is responsible for looking at indian military?What are ISI internal wings responsible for?
4. What is the defined role of MI? Does it overlap ISI? Was it responsible and successful to break insurgency and mainstream Balochistan?
5. What does Pakistan's premier civilian agency IB does?
6. Who is responsible for Industrial/Economic espionage as done by China recently and Russia before?

I noticed a lot of anomalies, lack of coordination & integration.
1. Pakistan does not have any thing like US National Intelligence Directorate Where all intelligence from various agencies/Intelligence community are fed & analysed.
2. ISI does brief PM time to time.
3. What is the role of ISI?Does it look strategically around the world or has singular focus on India?Is is responsible for looking at indian military?What are ISI internal wings responsible for?
4. What is the defined role of MI? Does it overlap ISI? Was it responsible and successful to break insurgency and mainstream Balochistan?
5. What does Pakistan's premier civilian agency IB does?
6. Who is responsible for Industrial/Economic espionage as done by China recently and Russia before?

Kindly change the thread title to a question . Remove ( a mess ? ) From title . How did you notice the anomalies and lack of coordination and all , ISI is too secretive so better upgrade your knowledge .
Now answering your questions .
1) Pak doesn't have a defence budget as great as US and it definitely affects the coordination and loopholes are left .
2) Yes ,ISI does brief PM time to time , also warnings are issued but due lack of proper coordination from the civil sector , terrorist attacks happen .
3) Yes , ISI looks globally and at India too . It's internal wings are separate for ME , EU , India and Kashmir .
4) As far as MI and IB are concerned , they don't play a major role . It's ISI most of the time . Yes , ISI has been successful in breaking the lines of BLA , BLF , TTP , PTM and other proxies and RAW agent Kulbhushan Sudheer Yadav .
5) Most of the time IB is used for security of politicians .
6) Don't know about that . ISI have too much greater issues to deal with like India's recent scrapping of Articles which gave a special status to Kashmir and their plans to invade AJK and internal pressures as Student March and Molana's March .

 

[The Accountant]

I noticed a lot of anomalies, lack of coordination & integration.
1. Pakistan does not have any thing like US National Intelligence Directorate Where all intelligence from various agencies/Intelligence community are fed & analysed.
2. ISI does brief PM time to time.
3. What is the role of ISI?Does it look strategically around the world or has singular focus on India?Is is responsible for looking at indian military?What are ISI internal wings responsible for?
4. What is the defined role of MI? Does it overlap ISI? Was it responsible and successful to break insurgency and mainstream Balochistan?
5. What does Pakistan's premier civilian agency IB does?
6. Who is responsible for Industrial/Economic espionage as done by China recently and Russia before?

As per my understanding which could be wrong:

MI is responsible for military intelligence matters only. i.e. internal military matters of Pakistan armed forces.

IB is civilian institute and accordingly deals with civilian intelligence matters.

ISI was created to address the difference between IB and MI. Therefore,

1. DG ISI reports to both Prime Minister and COAS.
2. ISI jurisdiction is not limited by borders or civilian and armed forces divide.
3. ISI is the central agency and receive intelligence from all other agencies but the way of gathering information is not formal and needs upgradation.
4. I know ISI operators posted in some very hostile environment in middle eastern region so they are not limited to India. THis is so secretive that despite being first cousin of my close friend, my friend never knew the duration and actual country of assignment.
5. ISI also has power to monitor and manipulate politicians and this is the core reason of negative image of ISI.

 

[Baz]

Yeah ISI should come out and tell you what they do. Get a life

 

[StormBreaker]

Funny thing is that most people commenting here are political fanboys and have never been part of local Police let alone national intel setup.


If i am not wrong it's a defence forum and everyone is free to discuss and make wild guesses based upon info in public domain.


There system,tactics and weaponolgy is most advance in world.Everybody is copying them.
Get out of that ranking thing,that's our self made entity for feel good.

I gave ranking as a example. Even the ranking is foreign number, not made by us. However, we do have this tumor inside our brains considering every USA thing to be perfect and to be followed on. Why ? Movies, more public exposure, massive size and influence around the globe. Pak mili is relatively small, limited to Pakistan, least to none appearance on media, that’s why we don’t know it’s proper command and structure due to secracy and safety.

 

[Sine Nomine]

I gave ranking as a example. Even the ranking is foreign number, not made by us. However, we do have this tumor inside our brains considering every USA thing to be perfect and to be followed on. Why ? Movies, more public exposure, massive size and influence around the globe. Pak mili is relatively small, limited to Pakistan, least to none appearance on media, that’s why we don’t know it’s proper command and structure due to secracy and safety.

On lighter note,they have dedicated think tanks,research org's and dev groupsl's for improving and devising new ideas in warfare,do we have any such thing?
Our much vaunted SoF Org's were organized and trained by them during cold war.It's not only fox news and Hollywood which have made US Forces a force to recon with rather years of hardwork.

 

[niaz]

ISI is a well-respected organization all over the world. However, two incidents have made me a bit skeptical and I have serious doubts whether ISI is really as good as it is touted to be. These incidents were:

Lal Masjid Mullahs had been hoarding weapons inside the mosque for quite some time and had turned into a nest of extremists. This was evident from the fact that its first Khatib Maulana Abdullah was killed inside the mosque in 1998 and his sons Abdul Aziz forgave the killers. All this was happening right under the noses of ISI HQ in Islamabad.

OBL had been hiding in Abbottabad for quite some time but apparently his presence was unknown to the Higher Authorities.

I refuse to believe that ISI was involved in supporting the terrorists inside Lal masjid and /or hiding Ossama bin Laden; ISI was simply incompetent. IMHO ISI may be good in many respects, especially in interfering in Pakistan politics, but certainly not good enough for all of Pakistan's security needs and is in urgent need of a revamp.

 

[Cash GK]

I noticed a lot of anomalies, lack of coordination & integration.
1. Pakistan does not have any thing like US National Intelligence Directorate Where all intelligence from various agencies/Intelligence community are fed & analysed.
2. ISI does brief PM time to time.
3. What is the role of ISI?Does it look strategically around the world or has singular focus on India?Is is responsible for looking at indian military?What are ISI internal wings responsible for?
4. What is the defined role of MI? Does it overlap ISI? Was it responsible and successful to break insurgency and mainstream Balochistan?
5. What does Pakistan's premier civilian agency IB does?
6. Who is responsible for Industrial/Economic espionage as done by China recently and Russia before?

ISI is nightmare monster for enemies...ISI is everwhere...

 

[Signalian]

I noticed a lot of anomalies, lack of coordination & integration.
1. Pakistan does not have any thing like US National Intelligence Directorate Where all intelligence from various agencies/Intelligence community are fed & analysed.
2. ISI does brief PM time to time.
3. What is the role of ISI?Does it look strategically around the world or has singular focus on India?Is is responsible for looking at indian military?What are ISI internal wings responsible for?
4. What is the defined role of MI? Does it overlap ISI? Was it responsible and successful to break insurgency and mainstream Balochistan?
5. What does Pakistan's premier civilian agency IB does?
6. Who is responsible for Industrial/Economic espionage as done by China recently and Russia before?

No mention of :
1. IB
2. FIA
3. Air Int and Navy Int
4. FIU
5. CMI

Which means OP doesnt have basic info on Int network of Pak and is digging for info.

 

[Signalian]

Kindly, include Agent Kabootar and Agent Crow into Our Intelligence Network!

Indians have caught our Agent Kabootar as well!!!

On a serious note, once upon a time, solo SSG members went along with ISI members in some areas outside Pakistan- a hunter killer team - hush .

 

[blueazure]

the ISI and general pakistani intelligence apparatus -

the good part -


superb HUMINT network .
superb network comms
very professional and hard working
very dedicated and patriotic . literally no deserters or 'pussies' like jadhev who gave everything
capability to weed out ' internal spies ' . excellent

agency is the silent hand. never seen on heard , but its there ,


the not so good part -

late adapter to emerging tech , esp IT
resistant to change in new tech
totally new comer to Hybrid war . total lack of flexibility conducting a shooting ' social media' shooting war aka the donbass operation, donetsk ppl republic type irregular operation
no ' point of view ' channel , no Rossiya Tv, no Vesti TV

-----------------------------------------

 

[Amaa'n]

No mention of :
1. IB
2. FIA
3. Air Int and Navy Int
4. FIU
5. CMI

Which means OP doesnt have basic info on Int network of Pak and is digging for info.

rightly said.....we got to be careful

 

[StormBreaker]

On lighter note,they have dedicated think tanks,research org's and dev groupsl's for improving and devising new ideas in warfare,do we have any such thing?
Our much vaunted SoF Org's were organized and trained by them during cold war.It's not only fox news and Hollywood which have made US Forces a force to recon with rather years of hardwork.

Are we in iraq, syria, africa, afghanistan, libya, international seas, and give military support to other countries that we need a vast team of 400-800 people just to sit in a building and think ? Nope, however, i do believe that we are not “gaye guzray” as much as people think. GHQ does have a think tank and other strategic PHDs team. What is NDU for then? To produce some weed smokers or think tankers? Our enemy is right on door, we have a small coastline. However, i do agree that improvised protocols, communication strategies and situational awareness strategies and systems must be focused on ALWAYS. God forbid, if during a sudden nuke strike, we lose whole of our top brass, whole of the military structure will be hurt more than the country. Every other brigadier and LT.Gen/Maj.Gen will possibly try to eat other fellows to ascend to the seat. It’s human nature. @The Eagle , remember the COAS in F-16 thread, i posted a post, which was just too simple for comman viewers but too deap for the real thinkers, and it was then deleted with the reason “No sense post”, the meaning was simple, in case of a nuke emergency, at least our COAS, who will inshaAllah become a FieldMarshal, can be transported away to safety to at least ensure the survival of top leadership, and that is a necessity. Some stupid sh*tbags might call this as a “COWARD RUN” but nope, it’s the top priority work to safeplace the top brass during bad times to ensure the structural integrity of backbone of armed forces. Jet fighters are fast, small, least chances of getting intercepted when heading west.

 

[Wrath]

Kindly, include Agent Kabootar and Agent Crow into Our Intelligence Network!

Indians have caught our Agent Kabootar as well!!!

Apples too

 

[Crusher]

Give some 0.2 million and the reciever will bark against nation. What do you expect from these corrupt politicians and goons had LEAs not been involved among them ? Prosperity ? Development ? National integrity and security? Nah, they would be easily bribed by india and that’s what india always wanted. That’s why their puppets here bark against army’s involvement in civil matters because army is a wall between their ambition to bribe..

Maybe in your city but certainly not in my city in Pakistan.

 

[StormBreaker]

Maybe in your city but certainly not in my city in Pakistan.

Buddy, not city, good and bad are everywhere, around the world, mixed, among teachers, preachers, institutions, military, governments, senates and international organizations.

Many bureaucrats, are honest from heart, but have to act to appear NORMAL to the dishonest one’s.

Apples too

Hey, that’s unfair, where are we BALOONS in the list ? @Wrath @Mangus Ortus Novem