Pakistan Intelligence Setup...A Mess?Your thoughts & observations..!

[Crusher]

Buddy, not city, good and bad are everywhere, around the world, mixed, among teachers, preachers, institutions, military, governments, senates and international organizations.

Many bureaucrats, are honest from heart, but have to act to appear NORMAL to the dishonest one’s.


Hey, that’s unfair, where are we BALOONS in the list ? @Wrath @Mangus Ortus Novem

Yes every place has a mix of good and bad people but some places have more good than bad while others have more bad than good ones.

ISI is a well-respected organization all over the world. However, two incidents have made me a bit skeptical and I have serious doubts whether ISI is really as good as it is touted to be. These incidents were:

Lal Masjid Mullahs had been hoarding weapons inside the mosque for quite some time and had turned into a nest of extremists. This was evident from the fact that its first Khatib Maulana Abdullah was killed inside the mosque in 1998 and his sons Abdul Aziz forgave the killers. All this was happening right under the noses of ISI HQ in Islamabad.

OBL had been hiding in Abbottabad for quite some time but apparently his presence was unknown to the Higher Authorities.

I refuse to believe that ISI was involved in supporting the terrorists inside Lal masjid and /or hiding Ossama bin Laden; ISI was simply incompetent. IMHO ISI may be good in many respects, especially in interfering in Pakistan politics, but certainly not good enough for all of Pakistan's security needs and is in urgent need of a revamp.

ISI is only to protect Pakistan against external or foreign threats or threats in Pakistan emerging due to external foreign backed factors.

The internal security is primarily the jurisdiction of the following agencies,

Intelligence Buro (IB)
FIA
Police Special Branch in every district

 

[xyx007]

This is our Elite agency and we loved them with our heart and don't like to discuss them in public. They are shadow and we keep them in shadow.

 

[Arsalan 345]

it's one of the best intelligence.we did lots of things which isn't public and i hope we will continue hard work.all those people who are sacrificing their lives for us,i want to tell them that every person is standing behind you and we are ready to sacrifice ourselves.we don't want indian influence in pakistan and will never accept their domination.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Some folks aren’t happy at what Pak’s doing now!!! They’ve not been “disappointed” enough yet for the “terror” hasn’t been struck into their hearts yet!! Flowers don’t bloom before their time!! Mankind has been created to be in haste....

 

[Signalian]

ISI is only to protect Pakistan against external or foreign threats or threats in Pakistan emerging due to external foreign backed factors.

Sure about that ?

I noticed a lot of anomalies, lack of coordination & integration.

If i may ask, on what grounds/factors/experience/research did you notice that ?

The internal security is primarily the jurisdiction of the following agencies,

Intelligence Buro (IB)
FIA
Police Special Branch in every district

Do u know G.M Syed ? (you can find him on wikipedia-my source is different)
Can you tell me who was he getting funding from and who was sent on his trail and who put him under house arrest?

rightly said.....we got to be careful

I have seen your awesome work on counter intelligence. i am just going to ask questions to a few members here who have posted about their information on ISI. Don't worry, i will only be talking about what Enemy intelligence agencies have done against Pakistan and how ISI countered them.

Honestly I have severe doubts on the Intelligence apparatus of Pakistan. History is proof that the Military and its agencies have always involved themselves in civilian governments. When they have involved themselves in civilian matters, then it is only logical to ask what part have they played in the enormous corruption of NS and Zardari??

Think about it, if there are handful of individuals who are sucking away a Whole nation of its money and vital resources, and also creating huge national security issues then would you let them do the plunder or would you stop them?? Why would the agencies keep quiet and let the plunder go on UNLESS they were involved in this themselves??

Also, the inability of the intelligence apparatus to deal with the relentless Media hybrid war on Pakistan people to me is the single biggest failure of intelligence agencies. There is a war imposed on Pakistan people, and nothing has been done about it. Why??

You mentioned Zardari. There was a certain time frame when "coded" signals (actually messages) were sent from India Rajasthan towards Panoaqil and Sukkur area where bandits used to loot cars on the main roads at night and vanish at night. Do you know what was happening and what was the outcome ?

Next, you mentioned NS.
Have you heard of Acetic Anhydride, ampethamine, methaqulon and mandrax? These are formed in chemical factories. If you know these chemical and the factory connection, let me ask you Why aren't NS and Zardari in power?

I know what you mean but I have to disagree to to the sentence that "No one in Pakistan is trust-able". The correct sentence should have been "those in power or positions of Power are not trust-able" in Pakistan.

If there are traitors within the establishment, bureaucracy, and civilian government, then there is no doubt the agencies need to know but why is there hypocrisy and double standards? Recently a military man was put to death because he was a traitor. Then why can't you not put to death arse holes like Zardari or NS? It is because they are treated differently since they belong to a few 'elites' who are ruling Pakistan; It is because of the hypocrisy and to some extent the corruption of the Agencies that we have double standards.

Also, why would you not stop the relentless media war imposed on Pakistan by foreign agencies?? What is the excuse here?? This media war is so dangerous that it can fundamentally change the society in Pakistan and can destabilize strategic relations with some key countries.

You have cleverly made the topic of Intelligence agencies about your own political thinking as if Intelligence agencies are to be blamed for politics, anyways, reply my previous post and we will continue.

As per my understanding which could be wrong:

MI is responsible for military intelligence matters only. i.e. internal military matters of Pakistan armed forces.

IB is civilian institute and accordingly deals with civilian intelligence matters.

ISI was created to address the difference between IB and MI. Therefore,

1. DG ISI reports to both Prime Minister and COAS.
2. ISI jurisdiction is not limited by borders or civilian and armed forces divide.
3. ISI is the central agency and receive intelligence from all other agencies but the way of gathering information is not formal and needs upgradation.
4. I know ISI operators posted in some very hostile environment in middle eastern region so they are not limited to India. THis is so secretive that despite being first cousin of my close friend, my friend never knew the duration and actual country of assignment.
5. ISI also has power to monitor and manipulate politicians and this is the core reason of negative image of ISI.

do you know about Sawara Camp and how has it come under watchful eyes of Pakistan Intel agencies ? and not just one intel agency, a few intel agencies where as you have mentioned that MI/IB/ISI have different domains.

 

[Signalian]

Some folks aren’t happy at what Pak’s doing now!!! They’ve not been “disappointed” enough yet for the “terror” hasn’t been struck into their hearts yet!! Flowers don’t bloom before their time!! Mankind has been created to be in haste....

Some folks aren't happy because Counter Intel in Pakistani Intel agencies is very very effective.

 

[The Accountant]

do you know about Sawara Camp and how has it come under watchful eyes of Pakistan Intel agencies ? and not just one intel agency, a few intel agencies where as you have mentioned that MI/IB/ISI have different domains.

No dear i dont know about the sawara camp. I never claim that they dont interact, share intelligence or work togather on some projects. Based on my information these three agencies have different objevtive ofyen interlapping with each other specially ISI whose domain is very vast. I can be wrong as this is my general understanding

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

I have found it the solution and reorganizination method
Let's fight against Allah's enemies
And let Allah take care of our enemies
How that sounds?
We are with limited resources and helping Allah against his enemies even though he is free from any need. But but but
Our Allah has unlimited resources and every Muslim believes Allahs fair trade so if he helps us with his resources against our enemy then our enemy is doomed.

 

[ARMalik]

You mentioned Zardari. There was a certain time frame when "coded" signals (actually messages) were sent from India Rajasthan towards Panoaqil and Sukkur area where bandits used to loot cars on the main roads at night and vanish at night. Do you know what was happening and what was the outcome ?

Next, you mentioned NS.
Have you heard of Acetic Anhydride, ampethamine, methaqulon and mandrax? These are formed in chemical factories. If you know these chemical and the factory connection, let me ask you Why aren't NS and Zardari in power?

You have cleverly made the topic of Intelligence agencies about your own political thinking as if Intelligence agencies are to be blamed for politics, anyways, reply my previous post and we will continue.

1- Zardari - sorry no idea. But I suppose you will elaborate?
2- NS -- again, sorry no idea. Was he a drug dealer?
3- "You cleverly made the topic of Intelligence agencies about your own political thinking"

Not sure what "Personal Criteria" you used to form an "opinion" that I have "Cleverly" linked "Topic of Intelligence agencies " to my "Own Political Thinking", But you opinion is certainly incorrect.

Lastly, being from a family of a Military man, I always had a biased view, that is, a view in favor of the military. But I am also realistic. And the reality is that Military has for too long hid under the umbrella of "patriotism" without taking any responsibility or accountability for ruling this country for half of its life. Rightly so, the People have finally started to ask questions.

 

[The Eagle]

@The Eagle , remember the COAS in F-16 thread, i posted a post, which was just too simple for comman viewers but too deap for the real thinkers, and it was then deleted with the reason “No sense post”, the meaning was simple, in case of a nuke emergency, at least our COAS, who will inshaAllah become a FieldMarshal, can be transported away to safety to at least ensure the survival of top leadership, and that is a necessity. Some stupid sh*tbags might call this as a “COWARD RUN” but nope, it’s the top priority work to safeplace the top brass during bad times to ensure the structural integrity of backbone of armed forces. Jet fighters are fast, small, least chances of getting intercepted when heading west.

That wasn't merely for "No Sense" deletion but in-fact, sometimes we need to make it simple and lest them think & be confused more. However, people will call it whatever they want to per their mental capacity while we will be keep talking about ideas & possibilities.

I noticed a lot of anomalies, lack of coordination & integration.
1. Pakistan does not have any thing like US National Intelligence Directorate Where all intelligence from various agencies/Intelligence community are fed & analysed.
2. ISI does brief PM time to time.
3. What is the role of ISI?Does it look strategically around the world or has singular focus on India?Is is responsible for looking at indian military?What are ISI internal wings responsible for?
4. What is the defined role of MI? Does it overlap ISI? Was it responsible and successful to break insurgency and mainstream Balochistan?
5. What does Pakistan's premier civilian agency IB does?
6. Who is responsible for Industrial/Economic espionage as done by China recently and Russia before?

As long as people keep guessing and even players in arena are confused; you are welcome to the games of Intel Agency. Confusion itself is a success and the day it becomes so simple or easily available in public forum, its just the end of highly complex Intel paradigm.