Sher Malang
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2010
- Messages
- 2,800
- Reaction score
- -2
- Country
- Location
SELF EDITED
Pakistan holds the key to peace in post-US Afghanistan
- Thread starter 53fd
- Start date
Paan Singh
BANNED
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2010
- Messages
- 7,636
- Reaction score
- 0
Ajaxpaul
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2011
- Messages
- 4,412
- Reaction score
- -5
i was saying that u will face this comments.
Prism, I really hate ur puppet pic..lol
Paan Singh
BANNED
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2010
- Messages
- 7,636
- Reaction score
- 0
nForce
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2010
- Messages
- 8,910
- Reaction score
- -1
- Country
- Location
Well said muse,I like this one.
Talking reasonably is not one of those qualities that many people possess in this forum.
ramu
BANNED
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,372
- Reaction score
- 0
By the same token and the same logic, do you think the people of Pakistan is represented by the GoP better known to be lead by 10%? NO. So can a neighbour of Pakistan decide to take matters into its own hands and enforce what should and should not be done by Pakistan. To say the least your logic is not just flawed, it will set a dangerous precedent for the detriment of Pakistan.
Yes, because unfortunately, the people brought him into power, by electing him & his party.
Pakistan did no such thing. Pakistan never sent its troops/Forces inside Afghanistan, always respected its sovereignty (although Afghanistan hasn't done the same). The Afghans are fiercely independent people, & the US & international forces are seen as outsiders & invaders. Just read up Pashtun history of invasion if you don't believe me. Even though the Taliban are brutal, they're their own Afghan people, & they're still preferred by most Afghans over foreign invaders/occupiers. It's just in their blood, they're fiercely independent people. Without the support of the Afghan people, the Taliban would never been created, or controlling 75% of Afghanistan. Pakistan is doing the right thing by not stepping onto Afghan territory, minding its own business. It's not that hard to figure out, even though the NATO/US Forces have failed to understand this. Karzai criticizes Pakistan/US/international forces, but never the Taliban; because the Taliban are the Afghan people, Pakistan/US/NATO forces aren't.
Where is the proof? Even Obama said there isn't clear evidence linking the Pakistani ISI to the Afghan terrorists. The Taliban are their own Afghans, supported by the Afghan people themselves, which is why they control 3/4ths of Afghanistan, despite the fact that the US has spent $ trillions on this war over a course of 10 years.
SpArK
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- May 5, 2010
- Messages
- 22,519
- Reaction score
- 18
- Country
- Location
Afghanistan had a good match against UAE this week in cricket.
Afgh 131/7 (80.0 ov, Mohammad Nabi 35*, Samiullah Shenwari 6*, Amjad Ali 0/18) - Match over | Live Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
I think India should invite them for Ranji and Irani matches like a regular team.
These guys have come a long way after Talibunnies and their masters banned sport in Afghanistan
Afgh 131/7 (80.0 ov, Mohammad Nabi 35*, Samiullah Shenwari 6*, Amjad Ali 0/18) - Match over | Live Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
I think India should invite them for Ranji and Irani matches like a regular team.
These guys have come a long way after Talibunnies and their masters banned sport in Afghanistan
muse
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2006
- Messages
- 13,006
- Reaction score
- 0
Whither or Wither Pakistan?
06 Oct 2011
Before retiring last week, U.S. Navy Adm. Mike Mullen made 27 trips to Pakistan as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff that convinced him he had established a close personal relationship with his opposite number, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani -- only to conclude in farewell interviews that he is still baffled by the world's most complex -- and dangerous --situation.
In truth, Mullen has been dealing with a Frankenstein's monster sired in the 1990s when the United States punished Pakistan with all manner of sanctions for its secret nuclear weapons program, which then President Muhammad Zia ul-Haq kept denying.
For 10 years, Pakistani officers were barred from U.S. bases and military schools and courses. In 1985, the U.S. Congress passed the Pressler Amendment that led to a decade-long suspension of security assistance to Pakistan, including 40 F-16 multi-role fighter aircraft. These were paid for in 1982 but flown directly from the Fort Worth, Texas, plant to the "bone yard" of a U.S. Air Force base for storage.
The Pressler Amendment crippled Pakistan's air force vis-a-vis India and the damage to the F-16 contract wasn't made whole until last year -- 25 years later. The junior officers that were banned from U.S. military schools are now Pakistan's generals. There was no way for Mullen to assess the long-lasting psychological damage inflicted on the Pakistani military.
The Taliban guerillas the United States is fighting today in Afghanistan were the creation of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency, an all-powerful amalgam of the CIA and FBI, and infinitely more powerful. Afghan Talib (student) fighters were moved into Afghanistan to put an end to the civil war that followed the withdrawal of Soviet forces in 1989.
These Pakistani-trained and -supplied guerrillas conquered Kandahar and fought their way to Kabul in the early 1990s, defeating the Soviet-backed Afghan Communist Party. Taliban chief Mullah Mohammed Omar, a thrice-wounded (including the loss of one eye) veteran of the guerrilla war against the Soviets, became president of the newly created Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan in 1996.
That same year, the hard-lining Islamist government of Sudan caved in to the joint pressure of Saudi Arabia and the United States and expelled Osama bin Laden, who had been kicked out of his native Saudi Arabia in 1992. Unfortunately, the United States didn't specify the country bin Laden should be sent and he chose the newly minted Islamist Emirate in Kabul.
Enter al-Qaida. Bin Laden had kept a register of all the Arab Muslim volunteers who had answered the appeal to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan in the early 1990s and many of them -- and newly recruited guerrilla volunteers -- rallied to his new cause from Algeria to Bangladesh. He set up some 20 guerrilla training camps.
Bin Laden was convinced -- as he told his Saudi friends -- that he and mujahedeen fighters had collapsed the Soviet empire by defeating the Soviet army in Afghanistan.
The Soviet Union imploded nine months later but bin Laden and the Muslim fighters he recruited played only a small part in the Afghan campaign that led to the Soviet withdrawal.
On June 4, 2001, three months before al-Qaida's 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Towers in New York and the Pentagon, this reporter and Dr. Ammar Turabi, a Pakistani American who was UPI's regional consultant for South Asia, interviewed Mullah Omar in Kandahar.
It became quite clear then that Omar was losing patience with bin Laden. Omar didn't invite bin Laden to Afghanistan; he invited himself. And Omar criticized him for issuing "too many fatwas," which he said bin Laden wasn't authorized to do as he hadn't finished his religious education. He also said bin Laden "talks too much" and that he had no authority to invite foreign journalists.
If he has committed crimes, Omar suggested, he should be judged by a Shariah court in a neutral Muslim country. The Clinton administration's State Department said it tried everything possible to get bin Laden out of Afghanistan. Not hard enough, in our judgment.
After the U.S. invasion, in the first 10 days of December 2001, bin Laden escaped into Pakistan with some 50 followers. Omar made his way to Quetta, the capital of Pakistan's Baluchistan province, where he enjoys the protection of ISI. Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan in a raid by U.S. Navy SEALs May 2 in his hiding place in Abbottabad, 30 miles from Islamabad.
What would be the downside of negotiating a peace agreement with Omar now that he clearly isn't affiliated with the transnational al-Qaida of Osama bin Laden? The 44 nations that are allied with the United States in Afghanistan didn't sign on to fight Taliban. They volunteered as they were led to believe they were fighting al-Qaida and its Taliban allies.
Yet this has never been the case. The war on al-Qaida metastasized rapidly into a wide variety of Taliban and Taliban-affiliated groups in Afghanistan. The Taliban fighters in Pakistan aren't allied with the Taliban guerrillas in Pakistan that tried to topple the government and got to within 60 miles of Islamabad in 2009.
As for the Haqqani guerrilla network that Mullen says is protected by Pakistan's ISI and attacks U.S. forces in Afghanistan from its privileged sanctuary in North Waziristan on the Afghan border, the situation is anything but clear cut.
Its chief is Jalaluddin Haqqani, in his early 50s, who was once referred to by former U.S. Rep. Charlie Wilson, D-Texas, as "goodness personified" for his effectiveness in fighting the Soviet occupation.
Haqqani's network was never integrated with Taliban but joined them in 2003 when Haqqani, concluded U.S. occupation of Afghanistan had become permanent. In 2006-07, Afghan President Hamid Karzai's emissaries offered Haqqani the post of prime minister. By then Karzai had lost most of his popularity and Haqqani declined.
The bottom line for the Obama administration is that there is no Afghan solution without Pakistan. And for Pakistan, there is no solution without Taliban and the Haqqani network.
To think there is an Indian solution, as some do in the Obama administration, is to simply guarantee a regional war-- and U.S. military involvement beyond 2014.
Urgent imperative is for the United States and Pakistan to bury the hatchet.
Arnaud de Borchgrave, a member of the Atlantic Council, is editor-at-large at UPI and the Washington Times.
06 Oct 2011
Before retiring last week, U.S. Navy Adm. Mike Mullen made 27 trips to Pakistan as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff that convinced him he had established a close personal relationship with his opposite number, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani -- only to conclude in farewell interviews that he is still baffled by the world's most complex -- and dangerous --situation.
In truth, Mullen has been dealing with a Frankenstein's monster sired in the 1990s when the United States punished Pakistan with all manner of sanctions for its secret nuclear weapons program, which then President Muhammad Zia ul-Haq kept denying.
For 10 years, Pakistani officers were barred from U.S. bases and military schools and courses. In 1985, the U.S. Congress passed the Pressler Amendment that led to a decade-long suspension of security assistance to Pakistan, including 40 F-16 multi-role fighter aircraft. These were paid for in 1982 but flown directly from the Fort Worth, Texas, plant to the "bone yard" of a U.S. Air Force base for storage.
The Pressler Amendment crippled Pakistan's air force vis-a-vis India and the damage to the F-16 contract wasn't made whole until last year -- 25 years later. The junior officers that were banned from U.S. military schools are now Pakistan's generals. There was no way for Mullen to assess the long-lasting psychological damage inflicted on the Pakistani military.
The Taliban guerillas the United States is fighting today in Afghanistan were the creation of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency, an all-powerful amalgam of the CIA and FBI, and infinitely more powerful. Afghan Talib (student) fighters were moved into Afghanistan to put an end to the civil war that followed the withdrawal of Soviet forces in 1989.
These Pakistani-trained and -supplied guerrillas conquered Kandahar and fought their way to Kabul in the early 1990s, defeating the Soviet-backed Afghan Communist Party. Taliban chief Mullah Mohammed Omar, a thrice-wounded (including the loss of one eye) veteran of the guerrilla war against the Soviets, became president of the newly created Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan in 1996.
That same year, the hard-lining Islamist government of Sudan caved in to the joint pressure of Saudi Arabia and the United States and expelled Osama bin Laden, who had been kicked out of his native Saudi Arabia in 1992. Unfortunately, the United States didn't specify the country bin Laden should be sent and he chose the newly minted Islamist Emirate in Kabul.
Enter al-Qaida. Bin Laden had kept a register of all the Arab Muslim volunteers who had answered the appeal to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan in the early 1990s and many of them -- and newly recruited guerrilla volunteers -- rallied to his new cause from Algeria to Bangladesh. He set up some 20 guerrilla training camps.
Bin Laden was convinced -- as he told his Saudi friends -- that he and mujahedeen fighters had collapsed the Soviet empire by defeating the Soviet army in Afghanistan.
The Soviet Union imploded nine months later but bin Laden and the Muslim fighters he recruited played only a small part in the Afghan campaign that led to the Soviet withdrawal.
On June 4, 2001, three months before al-Qaida's 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Towers in New York and the Pentagon, this reporter and Dr. Ammar Turabi, a Pakistani American who was UPI's regional consultant for South Asia, interviewed Mullah Omar in Kandahar.
It became quite clear then that Omar was losing patience with bin Laden. Omar didn't invite bin Laden to Afghanistan; he invited himself. And Omar criticized him for issuing "too many fatwas," which he said bin Laden wasn't authorized to do as he hadn't finished his religious education. He also said bin Laden "talks too much" and that he had no authority to invite foreign journalists.
If he has committed crimes, Omar suggested, he should be judged by a Shariah court in a neutral Muslim country. The Clinton administration's State Department said it tried everything possible to get bin Laden out of Afghanistan. Not hard enough, in our judgment.
After the U.S. invasion, in the first 10 days of December 2001, bin Laden escaped into Pakistan with some 50 followers. Omar made his way to Quetta, the capital of Pakistan's Baluchistan province, where he enjoys the protection of ISI. Bin Laden was killed in Pakistan in a raid by U.S. Navy SEALs May 2 in his hiding place in Abbottabad, 30 miles from Islamabad.
What would be the downside of negotiating a peace agreement with Omar now that he clearly isn't affiliated with the transnational al-Qaida of Osama bin Laden? The 44 nations that are allied with the United States in Afghanistan didn't sign on to fight Taliban. They volunteered as they were led to believe they were fighting al-Qaida and its Taliban allies.
Yet this has never been the case. The war on al-Qaida metastasized rapidly into a wide variety of Taliban and Taliban-affiliated groups in Afghanistan. The Taliban fighters in Pakistan aren't allied with the Taliban guerrillas in Pakistan that tried to topple the government and got to within 60 miles of Islamabad in 2009.
As for the Haqqani guerrilla network that Mullen says is protected by Pakistan's ISI and attacks U.S. forces in Afghanistan from its privileged sanctuary in North Waziristan on the Afghan border, the situation is anything but clear cut.
Its chief is Jalaluddin Haqqani, in his early 50s, who was once referred to by former U.S. Rep. Charlie Wilson, D-Texas, as "goodness personified" for his effectiveness in fighting the Soviet occupation.
Haqqani's network was never integrated with Taliban but joined them in 2003 when Haqqani, concluded U.S. occupation of Afghanistan had become permanent. In 2006-07, Afghan President Hamid Karzai's emissaries offered Haqqani the post of prime minister. By then Karzai had lost most of his popularity and Haqqani declined.
The bottom line for the Obama administration is that there is no Afghan solution without Pakistan. And for Pakistan, there is no solution without Taliban and the Haqqani network.
To think there is an Indian solution, as some do in the Obama administration, is to simply guarantee a regional war-- and U.S. military involvement beyond 2014.
Urgent imperative is for the United States and Pakistan to bury the hatchet.
Arnaud de Borchgrave, a member of the Atlantic Council, is editor-at-large at UPI and the Washington Times.
OrionHunter
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- May 28, 2011
- Messages
- 13,818
- Reaction score
- -5
- Country
- Location
The bottom line in Afghanistan is:
The US of A is screwed! Pakistan is screwed, India is screwed, Afghanistan is screwed!
Don't believe me? Then just wait till 2014 when the Americans depart. You'd then just need some popcorn, then switch on your TV, surf the channels to CNN or Al Jazira with your remote, then sit back and enjoy the fun of seeing everyone getting screwed, and how!!!! It's gonna be a real potboiler where there are no 'Intermissions' or no 'The End'!! And it's all gonna be for free!
Cheers!
The US of A is screwed! Pakistan is screwed, India is screwed, Afghanistan is screwed!
Don't believe me? Then just wait till 2014 when the Americans depart. You'd then just need some popcorn, then switch on your TV, surf the channels to CNN or Al Jazira with your remote, then sit back and enjoy the fun of seeing everyone getting screwed, and how!!!! It's gonna be a real potboiler where there are no 'Intermissions' or no 'The End'!! And it's all gonna be for free!
Cheers!
India should consider staying out of Afghanistan for greater regional security.
Its simply not a good idea, more and more it's becoming obvious, no country will allow it's neighbour to be a launchpad for destabilisation, shame on Americans for creating this situation.
Its simply not a good idea, more and more it's becoming obvious, no country will allow it's neighbour to be a launchpad for destabilisation, shame on Americans for creating this situation.
SpArK
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- May 5, 2010
- Messages
- 22,519
- Reaction score
- 18
- Country
- Location
Afghans blame Pakistan, and want Western forces to stay on
Yalda Hakim
October 10, 2011
''Every Muslim knows fighting infidels is a duty. If you become a martyr, you'll go [to] paradise," says Qari Ramazon, the man responsible for the attack on Kabul's Serena Hotel in 2008, which killed six people. When Ramazon looks you in the eye and says he'd be happy if the West faced more terrorist attacks, you start to wonder if the last 10 years in Afghanistan have made any real progress.
After gaining rare access to one of Afghanistan's most notorious prisons, Pul-e-Charkri in Kabul, I asked him why his group remain intent on killing. "Afghans and Pakistanis are against the US and NATO. It's my duty to fight them. I can afford to put explosives on my body and lose my life," Ramazon told me.
I travelled to Afghanistan to interview the man in charge of negotiating peace with the Taliban, former president Burhanuddin Rabbani. But within 36 hours of my arrival, I was attending his funeral. He was killed by an assassin who had hidden a bomb in his turban. This is life for ordinary Afghans, who live every day fearing another leader will be targeted or more innocent civilians killed in this seemingly endless war.
Mourners gathered at a hilltop cemetery overlooking Kabul as Rabbani was laid to rest. They were angry. Angry at Pakistan. Angry at its intelligence agency, the ISI. Most Afghans I spoke to accused Pakistan of harbouring the Taliban and al-Qaeda. Pakistan has of course been quick to reject these accusations, but from the country's opposition leader to police chiefs and ordinary civilians, Afghans continue to blame their hostile nuclear neighbour for their woes. "Osama bin Laden was found at the heart of Pakistan's military establishment. To think al-Qaeda and the Taliban aren't based there is wrong," said police chief Esmatullah Alizai.
The death of Rabbani has dealt a serious blow to any negotiations with the Taliban. Rabbani, an elder statesman respected by both sides of Afghan politics, gave the body legitimacy. An ethnic Tajik and once leader of the Northern Alliance, the 70-year-old was also able to protect President Hamid Karzai, a Pashtun, from rival camps within his government.
Pressure is now mounting on the country's embattled leader to not only appease various factions but to find a consensus on the peace process. For many, that process is now dead in the water.
The powerful governor of the northern province of Balkh, Mohammad Atta Noor, has warned that if Karzai doesn't take swift action against the Taliban, he will rearm and regroup the Northern Alliance to take on the task.
But who is the enemy? Who will they fight? The war tactic has changed. Taliban fighters seem to have moved off the battlefield and are focusing on more targeted attacks. This year, they've managed to successfully assassinate four key Karzai allies. And the security situation continues to worsen, with violence increasing by nearly 40 per cent over last year.
The capital is tense. A few weeks ago the Taliban mounted an attack on the US embassy and NATO headquarters. Central Kabul is supposedly protected by a ''Ring of Steel'', fortified checkpoints which are designed to stop attacks on key government buildings and the residences of officials such as Rabbani. But twice it has failed miserably.
Now, with peace talks in disarray and America's influence waning before its troops withdraw in 2014, the future appears bleak for Afghans. After 10 years, many feel very little has been done to eliminate terrorism from the country and region. Afghans fear their country may spiral back into civil war as violent factions battle it out - a recipe for creating another terrorist haven.
At a time of persistent violence, many I spoke to said the West needs to reconsider the timetable for withdrawal. "The world must not repeat its mistakes," said Atta.
''The world must not leave Afghanistan to deal with drugs, smugglers and terrorists. And if the international community doesn't understand this, and Afghanistan has to deal with terrorism on its own, these problems will reach the Western world's most beautiful cities.''
Yalda Hakim is a presenter of the SBS international current affairs program Dateline. Her report from Afghanistan will be broadcast on SBS1 at 1pm today and afterwards at SBS Dateline.
Read more: Afghans blame Pakistan, and want Western forces to stay on
Yalda Hakim
October 10, 2011
''Every Muslim knows fighting infidels is a duty. If you become a martyr, you'll go [to] paradise," says Qari Ramazon, the man responsible for the attack on Kabul's Serena Hotel in 2008, which killed six people. When Ramazon looks you in the eye and says he'd be happy if the West faced more terrorist attacks, you start to wonder if the last 10 years in Afghanistan have made any real progress.
After gaining rare access to one of Afghanistan's most notorious prisons, Pul-e-Charkri in Kabul, I asked him why his group remain intent on killing. "Afghans and Pakistanis are against the US and NATO. It's my duty to fight them. I can afford to put explosives on my body and lose my life," Ramazon told me.
I travelled to Afghanistan to interview the man in charge of negotiating peace with the Taliban, former president Burhanuddin Rabbani. But within 36 hours of my arrival, I was attending his funeral. He was killed by an assassin who had hidden a bomb in his turban. This is life for ordinary Afghans, who live every day fearing another leader will be targeted or more innocent civilians killed in this seemingly endless war.
Mourners gathered at a hilltop cemetery overlooking Kabul as Rabbani was laid to rest. They were angry. Angry at Pakistan. Angry at its intelligence agency, the ISI. Most Afghans I spoke to accused Pakistan of harbouring the Taliban and al-Qaeda. Pakistan has of course been quick to reject these accusations, but from the country's opposition leader to police chiefs and ordinary civilians, Afghans continue to blame their hostile nuclear neighbour for their woes. "Osama bin Laden was found at the heart of Pakistan's military establishment. To think al-Qaeda and the Taliban aren't based there is wrong," said police chief Esmatullah Alizai.
The death of Rabbani has dealt a serious blow to any negotiations with the Taliban. Rabbani, an elder statesman respected by both sides of Afghan politics, gave the body legitimacy. An ethnic Tajik and once leader of the Northern Alliance, the 70-year-old was also able to protect President Hamid Karzai, a Pashtun, from rival camps within his government.
Pressure is now mounting on the country's embattled leader to not only appease various factions but to find a consensus on the peace process. For many, that process is now dead in the water.
The powerful governor of the northern province of Balkh, Mohammad Atta Noor, has warned that if Karzai doesn't take swift action against the Taliban, he will rearm and regroup the Northern Alliance to take on the task.
But who is the enemy? Who will they fight? The war tactic has changed. Taliban fighters seem to have moved off the battlefield and are focusing on more targeted attacks. This year, they've managed to successfully assassinate four key Karzai allies. And the security situation continues to worsen, with violence increasing by nearly 40 per cent over last year.
The capital is tense. A few weeks ago the Taliban mounted an attack on the US embassy and NATO headquarters. Central Kabul is supposedly protected by a ''Ring of Steel'', fortified checkpoints which are designed to stop attacks on key government buildings and the residences of officials such as Rabbani. But twice it has failed miserably.
Now, with peace talks in disarray and America's influence waning before its troops withdraw in 2014, the future appears bleak for Afghans. After 10 years, many feel very little has been done to eliminate terrorism from the country and region. Afghans fear their country may spiral back into civil war as violent factions battle it out - a recipe for creating another terrorist haven.
At a time of persistent violence, many I spoke to said the West needs to reconsider the timetable for withdrawal. "The world must not repeat its mistakes," said Atta.
''The world must not leave Afghanistan to deal with drugs, smugglers and terrorists. And if the international community doesn't understand this, and Afghanistan has to deal with terrorism on its own, these problems will reach the Western world's most beautiful cities.''
Yalda Hakim is a presenter of the SBS international current affairs program Dateline. Her report from Afghanistan will be broadcast on SBS1 at 1pm today and afterwards at SBS Dateline.
Read more: Afghans blame Pakistan, and want Western forces to stay on
Similar threads
