Pakistan helicopter plans

[cabatli_53]

And Interesting,

According to Turkish defence magazines and some media sources;

Pakistan, Jordan and Malaysian authorities have met Turkish authorities to tell their interests to meet their future combat helicopter need from T-129 Atak helicopter.

Here is the Turkish article about this news....

Daha önce (Pakistan, Malaysia and Jordan) Pakistan, Malezya ve Ürdün’ün de Türkiye’nin üreteceği saldırı helikopterlerinden alacaklarını açıklamaları, T-129’un pazar payını arttıracak ve üretimi sürekli hale getirecek.

Sald?r? helikopterimiz T-129 2013'te semalarda olacak*-*TrMilitary.com-Türk Savunma Sanayii Ürünleri ve Haberleri

 

[RS4]

It has been on numerous foroum that Italy have offered 6 surplus CH 47C, but no official comments yet. Pakistan Army has expressed interest in the A129 however the Pakistan Army is looking at the Euro copter tiger. Pakistan has the ability under is 'Major Non Nato Ally' status to purchase excess defence articles, the US is phaseing out the CH47C/D in favour of the V22 and CH47F. So there lies there a poptential option as well as Agusta of Italy also license manufacture the CH47C/D.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

"so is the Havoc deal confirmed as a stop gap measure? And when is T-129 going to be fully operational? Pakistan would require at least 25-30 or so initially."

No Bro, There is not any official announcement about Hovac and I also do not suppose that Turkey will order any Hovac. The media (Zaman media) which has threw into this type news, are not a safe source in Turkey so Any of us do not trust their news about military intelligence...

About T-129;

-All Qualification works will be finished in 2013
-First serial producted T-129 will be delivered in the end of 2013.


Regards...

Is it better than the Mangusta? Is everything on it made in Turkey such as engines as well?

What are being used as stop gap till T-129 is produced? I know Greece is operating Apache.

 

[cabatli_53]

Is it better than the Mangusta? Is everything on it made in Turkey such as engines as well?

What are being used as stop gap till T-129 is produced? I know Greece is operating Apache.

Yes Bro, T-129 will be absolutely better than a Mangusta not only its avionics but also engine power and indigenous intelligent software systems. Tubitak and Aselsan have developed T-129's fire control system and avionics right now.

Let's check it now...
Firstly imagine a AH-1P's cockpit... This picture has taken Turkish test-bad AH-1P helicopter that modernizated to T-129 level to test some fuctions of fire control system and avionics....

and A succesful Spike missile fire from AH-1P with T-129's avionics and fire control system... It is the first test lauch of this new developed fire control system....




T-129 will be capable to fire 70mm anti-armour, anti-personnel Cirit missile that is developed by Roketsan. Roketsan has started to develop Cirit at the same time with Lockheedmartin and Raythean firms and Now a days, Roketsan has only 2 rivals at World markets.

Aselflir 300T known the best day/night sighting system of the World. At the other hand, It is more heavier than rivals but Quality is our priority, is not it ?...

While Mangusta capable to carry 8 Tow-Hellfire system on pods, T-129 is able to carry 12 Umtas / Hellfire / Spike/ Tow missiles.

Now a Days, Aselsan is developing a MMW radar to integrate on mast of T-129. It gives excellent surveillance-reconnaissance capability in every weather conditions but Mangusta does not have same capability.

TUSAS Engine Industries Inc (TEI) will manufacture the LHTEC CTS800-4N engines under licence. While CTS800-4N provides 1,680x2 shp power to T-129 , Mangusta's engine provides only 890x2 or 1373 (for international)shp to A-129.

Greece is operating the Apaches but AH-64's are an heavy anti-tank helicopter but T-129 will be a multi-role one. T-129 will capable to carry 4 stinger missiles to shot down air targets so Apaches do not have any second chance If They meet on air...

Regards

 

[cabatli_53]

I hope we can work something out with Turkey, this is an absolute beast.

Just one thing though...what will the Turks call it? Each helicopter has a call sign: Mangusta, Apache, Havoc, etc. Will Mangusta be used or a new name?

Yes Bro,

For the present, We call T-129 "ATAK" in Turkish that means Impulsive, Attack, Militant in English...

 

[cabatli_53]

Here is a comparison between T-129, AH-64D and A-129.

T-129 -----AH-64D-------A-129

Length: ---------------13.8m-----17.73m---- 13.5
Height : -------------- 3.4m------4.05m------ 3.4m
Cruise Speed:---------- 278km/h---276km/h---- 250km/h
Max. Range: ----------- 561km-----260km----- 557km
Max. Rate climb:-------- 763m------736m------ 612m
Max. Take off weight---- 5000kg----9525kg---- 4600kg
Service Ceiling (m):----- 6096m-----6400m---- 4425m

 

[fatman17]

That's sad to hear. We were using them for Anti-Submarine role weren't we? Would you by any chance know who's not providing us with the spares?

dont quote me but it is westland UK.

 

[Beskar]

dont quote me but it is westland UK.

As i suspected. There's a lot of Lynx operators globally. We should try to procure them from other countries.

 

[fatman17]

off topic (sorry for that) but what exactly is and isnt involved in a "re-built"? Is it like cannibalizing and re-assembling from the parts?

for the puma's its mainly the power-plant.
for the Mil-8s its much more. complete overhaul of the power-plant (in some cases, replacement with a new engine), overhaul of the air-frame. i met a PAA officer at mtn who provided this info to me. this was sometime last year and their plan was to re-surrect 8 Mil-8s for the army.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Oh woww, this heli is amazing. Good to see that Pakistan is expressing its interest in it, i really dont think there should be any hurdles in Pakistan acquiring this machine. Pakistan and Turkey are on excellent relations

 

[Manticore]

the atak looks like an apache?



*any comparisons between them would be highly appreciated

 

[Beskar]

the atak looks like an apache?

Not really. Helicopter enthusiasts would tell you different.

AH-64 Apache

ATAK A129

 

[duhastmish]

apache is surely LOOKS deadlier than the Augusta.

 

[Beskar]

apache is surely LOOKS deadlier than the Augusta.

Yes it does. Probably has something to do with the fact that it's the best, the most ADVANCED attack helicopter in the world.

But we all shouldn't rely on looks. It's what's INSIDE that matters! (Every random fat guy's excuse to a woman)

 

[XYON]

Interesting Discussion. Here is my addition to it.

In the early 1990's a team from Bell and FN Herstal of Belgium had visited Pakistan to discuss the establishment of a JV with the help of GoP to manufacture attack helicopters based on the Bell 412 platform. Unfortunately, this did not work out because the GoP wanted the entire financing of the project to be done by the private sector. Since the private sector was not ready to invest such heavily without Government assurances, hence the deal collapsed.

Ever since then Pakistan Army has been a 'Desperately Seeking Susan' for an attack helicopter. Their best choice is the Cobra because of the birds already being operated. However the Army has also looked at the Mi-35 attack helicopter from Russia and the Tiger from Eurocopter. The Apache, though make a good addition to our stocks, but is difficult to get under present political and financial circumstances. Hence Pak Army should continue to concentrate on the Cobra platform and should insist on getting the new 4-rotor twin engine upgraded US Marine version which is potentially more lethal then the older models of Cobra's that we have in stock and are using over Wana and Swat. Army also wanted to decommission the Puma's but now for the lack of finances they are been operated with minor upgrades. Mi-17 is already the designated Army school-bus!! And yes the Eurocopter Fennec's are also being used for hi altitude transportation etc.

Pakistan Navy Lynx Helicopters have been decommissioned and have been put up for sale by the Navy and MoD. Navy wants to replace the Lynx with either an upgraded Lynx from the Agustawestland (which is too expensive for a poor man's Navy) or it is being forced t induct the Z-9EC which essentially lacks hover ability for the ASW role. The Navy is also seeking the replacement of its old horse the SEA-KING!! Alouette is however now the only reliable operating bird with the Navy despite its age.

Finally the Air Force is using both Alouette (for Combat rescue) and the Mi-17.

Pakistan will soon also have a new entrant in the helicopter market. This would be the Agustawestland AW139 Helicopter for VVIP and Emergency Role. These are being purchased to replace the Bell 412 and 214 helicopters by the Cabinet Division and are going to be operated by the 6th Aviation Squadron based in Islamabad.

I personally feel that a helicopter manufacturing facility in Pakistan would tremendously benefit our military and civilian market in Pakistan and the region in general. Lets see if this actually becomes a reality or not in the near future.