Pakistan has second strike capability against India

[Bossman]

So how can this guy is openly telling the censored, secret information to everyone that Pakistan have second strike capability to alert the enemy and they start thinking of destroying them too in the first wave of attack.

He is not stupid. Release of such information is usually part of calculated moves. There are a lot of discussion what and how much information can be released and at what time keeping in mind number of factors including how the enemy already knows. The thing about second strike is you have to find it before you can destroy it. This is the very essence of second strike.

 

[ganesh623]

Pakistan has nukes, pakistan has second strike capacity, pakistan has mujahedens, pakistan has this and that.
Why so much inferiority complex for pakistan that they need to keep shouting hey please pay some attention towards us.

 

[Bossman]

Pakistan has nukes, pakistan has second strike capacity, pakistan has mujahedens, pakistan has this and that.
Why so much inferiority complex for pakistan that they need to keep shouting hey please pay some attention towards us.

Because Indians are fixated with Pakistan. Just listen to what your leaders say and do. 80% of your military is Pakistan specific. Also your average people. The fact that you are reading every thing and posting on a Pakistani military forum along with many other Indians is a proof. It not us but the Indian who have the inferiority complex. A thousand year of foreign domination will do that.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Because Indians are fixated with Pakistan. Just listen to what your leaders say and do. 80% of your military is Pakistan specific. Also your average people. The fact that you are reading every thing and posting on a Pakistani military forum along with many other Indians is a proof. It not us but the Indian who have the inferiority complex. A thousand year of foreign domination will do that.

Poor argument, Sweden has NEVER been dominated by a foreign country.
No inferiority complex, that we leave for our neighbouring brothers.
Yet here I am reading and posting...

 

[Bossman]

Poor argument, Sweden has NEVER been dominated by a foreign country.
No inferiority complex, that we leave for our neighbouring brothers.
Yet here I am reading and posting...

You don't understand Indians the way we do. This forum is full of Indians, they get involved in every thread and the only thing they do that write negative comments similar to the one I was responding to. They are like vermin they go where they are not wanted and spread disease.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

So how can this guy is openly telling the censored, secret information to everyone that Pakistan have second strike capability to alert the enemy and they start thinking of destroying them too in the first wave of attack.

In 1998 it was not conducive for Pakistan to declare itself a nuclear weapons state before india conducted it's test. Unlike years gone by, india cannot carry out attacks against Pakistan with impunity and without reprisals. Also, no specifics were given about Pakistan's 2nd strike capability. What was also not mentioned was something everyone has completely overlooked. In 2012/13 Pakistan successfully completed construction of a heavy water plant. This will ultimately give Pakistan the ability to produce H-bombs and thermonuclear weapons. This will ensure the survival of the Pakistani race against our enemies.

He is not stupid. Release of such information is usually part of calculated moves. There are a lot of discussion what and how much information can be released and at what time keeping in mind number of factors including how the enemy already knows. The thing about second strike is you have to find it before you can destroy it. This is the very essence of second strike.

Doesn't matter what indians say. They also claimed that Pakistan did'nt have nuclear weapons until 28th of May 1998.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

So we have a missile which we can be fire from our Submarine or Frigate

sea-launched version of the Babur

 

[maxpayne]

Yes but in May 1998 it was stated that Pakistan was many years away from being able to conduct a test, if any. I clearly remember the furore and horror in the indian parliament when it was announced that Pakistan had successfully conducted a nuclear weapons test because most of them had assumed that Pakistan had no nuke capability whatsoever.

Also after 9-11 the Pakistan military is very reluctant to give any info. or news about it's strategic weapons programs as many in the west and elsewhere claim that we'll give them to terrorists. So virtual all strategic weapons news is tightly censored.

Bro im in PN and know a little. Thats why im contradicting u...

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

You don't understand Indians the way we do. This forum is full of Indians, they get involved in every thread and The only thing that write negative comments similar to the one I was responding to. They are like vermin they go where they are not wanted and spread disease.

Oh I See, a perfectly normal behaviour in forums...

 

[Penguin]

Which PAF jet can carry Baber CM? Or they have reduced size of it? although if Su-35s are purchased then Baber can be carried on it in its current size.

Baber's weight is 1500kg, it is some 6.25m long and has a 52cm diameter. By comparison, C-802 is 715 kg, 6.39 m with a 39cm diameter. AM39 is 670 kilograms, 4.7 metres and 35 cm diameter. AGHM-84 Harpoon is 691 kg with booster, 3.8 m (surface- and submarine-launched: 4.6 m due to booster) and diameter 34cm.And then, of course, there is the 350km Hatf-VIII (Ra'ad): 1,100 kg, 4.85 m

The JF-17 can be armed with up to 3,629 kg weaponry and other equipment mounted externally on the aircraft's seven hardpoints. One hardpoint is located under the fuselage between the main landing gear, two are underneath each wing, and one is at each wing-tip. All seven hardpoints communicate via a MIL-STD-1760 data-bus architecture with the Stores Management System, which is stated to be capable of integration with weaponry of any origin.
JF-17 Block 1. The first three Chinese weapons to be integrated are the PL-5E AAM, the SD-10 AAM, and the C-802 anti-shipping missile.
JF-17 Block 2. These aircraft have air-to-air refuelling capability, improved avionics, enhanced load carrying capacity, data link, and electronic warfare capabilities

Mirage 3/5 4,000 kg of payload (including AM-39 Exocet) on 5 hardpoints.
F-16C Block 50: up to 7,700 kg of stores on 11 hardpoints

Since Babur is not longer than C802 and about as 'fat' as a fuel tank, centerline carriage is a real option (assuming 1500 kg is too much for the wing stations)

ALCM might be launched by C130 /IL78 type A/C. Perhaps it will not be an entirely new role for C130. I guess a flight of heavies can be dedicated for this particular role.

As in the Uks Future Offensive Air System?

 

[Thorough Pro]

No! You are too idiot!

 

[HRK]

Pakistan has nukes, pakistan has second strike capacity, pakistan has mujahedens, pakistan has this and that.
Why so much inferiority complex for pakistan that they need to keep shouting hey please pay some attention towards us.

An Indian on Pakistani Defence Forum want India Centric discussion ..... I am sure this is the symptom of PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDER known as Superiority Complex which is in reality another form Inferiority Complex

A superiority complex is generally the result of an underlying inferiority complex.

A superiority complex is a psychological defense mechanism in which a person's feelings of superiority counter or conceal his or her feelings of inferiority

 

[zebra7]

He is not stupid. Release of such information is usually part of calculated moves. There are a lot of discussion what and how much information can be released and at what time keeping in mind number of factors including how the enemy already knows. The thing about second strike is you have to find it before you can destroy it. This is the very essence of second strike.

Hey you got one thanxs for this...................

I was answering to some one else which is different than @PAKISTANFOREVER why don't you discuss it with him.

@PAKISTANFOREVER said: ↑

Yes but in May 1998 it was stated that Pakistan was many years away from being able to conduct a test, if any. I clearly remember the furore and horror in the indian parliament when it was announced that Pakistan had successfully conducted a nuclear weapons test because most of them had assumed that Pakistan had no nuke capability whatsoever.

Also after 9-11 the Pakistan military is very reluctant to give any info. or news about it's strategic weapons programs as many in the west and elsewhere claim that we'll give them to terrorists. So virtual all strategic weapons news is tightly censored.

Baber's weight is 1500kg, it is some 6.25m long and has a 52cm diameter. By comparison, C-802 is 715 kg, 6.39 m with a 39cm diameter. AM39 is 670 kilograms, 4.7 metres and 35 cm diameter. AGHM-84 Harpoon is 691 kg with booster, 3.8 m (surface- and submarine-launched: 4.6 m due to booster) and diameter 34cm.And then, of course, there is the 350km Hatf-VIII (Ra'ad): 1,100 kg, 4.85 m

The JF-17 can be armed with up to 3,629 kg weaponry and other equipment mounted externally on the aircraft's seven hardpoints. One hardpoint is located under the fuselage between the main landing gear, two are underneath each wing, and one is at each wing-tip. All seven hardpoints communicate via a MIL-STD-1760 data-bus architecture with the Stores Management System, which is stated to be capable of integration with weaponry of any origin.
JF-17 Block 1. The first three Chinese weapons to be integrated are the PL-5E AAM, the SD-10 AAM, and the C-802 anti-shipping missile.
JF-17 Block 2. These aircraft have air-to-air refuelling capability, improved avionics, enhanced load carrying capacity, data link, and electronic warfare capabilities

Mirage 3/5 4,000 kg of payload (including AM-39 Exocet) on 5 hardpoints.
F-16C Block 50: up to 7,700 kg of stores on 11 hardpoints

Since Babur is not longer than C802 and about as 'fat' as a fuel tank, centerline carriage is a real option (assuming 1500 kg is too much for the wing stations)

As in the Uks Future Offensive Air System?

Good post.
Sir its not the weight it can carry but the strength of the air frame which can allow the weapon to be loaded on the pylon. Since you said it will be center-line pylon than the area of that region must be needed the strengthening and further tests on the JF17 to validate the aerodynamic flying characteristics when loaded with the Babur Cruise Missile. What you are talking about is the mechanical fitment. Sir it will be air launched Babur which would need further testing and its configuration might be different than the conventional because the air launched would already have the elevation from where it would be released so less fuel for same range aka smaller in dimension. Couple of question though

1. Is there any work on the air launched Babur cruise Missile in Pakistan.
2. Do you really considered a cruise missile as the best was of launching nuclear weapon because subsonic, terrain hugging cruise missiles like babur have the tendency to loose its path.
3. Many other air launch cruise missile options are already present e.g Raa'd or Chinese ALCM CJ-10 so don't you think its much better to buy rather than develop.

 

[Penguin]

Hey you got one thanxs for this...................

I was answering to some one else which is different than @PAKISTANFOREVER why don't you discuss it with him.

@PAKISTANFOREVER said: ↑

Yes but in May 1998 it was stated that Pakistan was many years away from being able to conduct a test, if any. I clearly remember the furore and horror in the indian parliament when it was announced that Pakistan had successfully conducted a nuclear weapons test because most of them had assumed that Pakistan had no nuke capability whatsoever.

Also after 9-11 the Pakistan military is very reluctant to give any info. or news about it's strategic weapons programs as many in the west and elsewhere claim that we'll give them to terrorists. So virtual all strategic weapons news is tightly censored.



Good post.
Sir its not the weight it can carry but the strength of the air frame which can allow the weapon to be loaded on the pylon. Since you said it will be center-line pylon than the area of that region must be needed the strengthening and further tests on the JF17 to validate the aerodynamic flying characteristics when loaded with the Babur Cruise Missile. What you are talking about is the mechanical fitment. Sir it will be air launched Babur which would need further testing and its configuration might be different than the conventional because the air launched would already have the elevation from where it would be released so less fuel for same range aka smaller in dimension. Couple of question though

1. Is there any work on the air launched Babur cruise Missile in Pakistan.
2. Do you really considered a cruise missile as the best was of launching nuclear weapon because subsonic, terrain hugging cruise missiles like babur have the tendency to loose its path.
3. Many other air launch cruise missile options are already present e.g Raa'd or Chinese ALCM CJ-10 so don't you think its much better to buy rather than develop.

Let me address that in some detail:

Centreline station takes an 800l fuel tank, wingstations 800 or 1100l fuel tanks
Assume JP8 is used by JF-17. This has a specific weight of 6.7 lb/gal.
Since 1 gallon = 3,78541178 liter and 1 pound = 0.45359237 kilograms
that is (6.7 x 0.45359237) kg per 3,78541178 liter, or 0,802837 kg/l
So 800l = 642.3 kg and 1100l=883,1 kg plus some weight of the tank itself.
Centreline on JF-17 can accommodate C-802 (ref missile size)
Centrelinepoint on JF17 takes (at least) a 1000kg bomb
Clearly, the centreline station can take a similar load to F-16 and Mirage 3/5

Mirage centreline can hold the 1,100kg Hatf-VIII (Ra'ad)

Mirage 3/5 uses
625 L drop tank with 499kg of fuel
1200 L drop tank with 959 kg of fuel
1300 L drop tank with 1038kg of fuel (340-gallon)
1700 L drop tank with 1358 kg of fuel (450-gallon)

Mirage 50 and IAI Kfir take 1300l on the centreline and 1700l on each wing.

JP8 is typically used by F16. This has a specific weight of 6.7 lb/gal.
6.7x300=2010 lbs = 912 kg (centreline tank)
6,7x370=2479 lbs = 1124.5 kg (second most inner wing stations)
6,7x600=4020 lbs = 1823 kg (each innermost wing station)
And that is just the weight of the fuel, not counting the fuel tank empty weight.

370's approx. dry weight = 700lbs with pylon = 317,5kg > loaded total weight = 1442 kg.
300 centerline appprox. dry weight 500lbs =227kg > loaded total weight = 1139 kg

So thew F16 would have little problem carrying Hatf-VIII (Ra'ad) on its centreline, or 2x Babur on the inner wing stations.

 

[Falgrine]

As in the Uks Future Offensive Air System?

Precisely. Many more ALCMs can be carried by these heavies compared to standard fighters.(we are not getting B52 any time soon ). So perhaps PAF can practice airborning them with dummy loads, and with the fighter cover, to simulate air launch from safe standoff ranges. And then give that Flight/Squadron some fancy name e.g. Crazy Rhinos.