Pakistan has placed order of Russian Gunship Helicopters - Dawn

[Sage]

pakistan should buy our LUH, LCH and Dhruv.

And in return we will transfer you the technology of making toilets

 

[Sage]

Sir,i think you misunderstood me.I wasn't rooting for an Indo-Pak war in the near future,i was just asking about the Pakistan Army wartime doctrine regarding the usage of MI-17 in case of a full fledged war.I also don't want the two of our countries to fight each other unnecessarily as it will hurt us both economically and ultimately terrorists will be the biggest benefactor in this type of a conflict.Anyways i won't derail this thread further on,thanks again for those replies

The wartime doctrine does not involve MI-17 as tank busters ....Since Pak Army believes in swift mobility more than any thing, MI-17s are not equipped with any such arsenal. If needed be, it can be done ...but why would army be interested when they have Baktar Shikan and anti-material snipers...And yes ...let's not forget the future ground role of JF-17 over combat area !

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

What about the sound of it approching, doesn't that warn the other side, making the surprise element almost nil.
It is good for dropping special forces, giving them some air cover and exfiltrating them.

Well , sometimes the enemy does not know what is happening in night time as they are fast asleep and not to mention its a huge tactical advantage to be able to drop in uninvited and land troops or pick up suspects

Also sometimes tectical missions are done in large scale complexes or buildings where troops could land on roofs etc to enter garissoned buildings or even in case of an operation is taking place in sea like stolen or hijacked ship etc

The application of the Mi-35 are vast and many

Its a missing link between the armed forces & and air defence

It also some what frees up JF17 thunder and F16 to focus on air - air roles more if Mi-35 is doing work of cleaning up enemy troops and tanks

 

[thrilainmanila]

The wartime doctrine does not involve MI-17 as tank busters ....Since Pak Army believes in swift mobility more than any thing, MI-17s are not equipped with any such arsenal. If needed be, it can be done ...but why would army be interested when they have Baktar Shikan and anti-material snipers...And yes ...let's not forget the future ground role of JF-17 over combat area !

I think the army have a outdated concept of fighting India, they think that having a huge armored division in the form of tanks would be able to deter and ground offensives by india, the army have invested in building tanks, when what they should be doing is investing in IFVs, SAMs, attack helicopters and more modern ATGMs not Baktar shikan (which is an outdated system)

 

[Sage]

I believe funding all these projects is a problem ....Who would not want to develop all those items which you've mentioned ...Our ballistic missiles are enough to counter the cold start doctrine of India ...However ...the ATGM system like Baktar Shekan is a combat proven one ...I would personally prefer ATGM vs Tank and MANPAD against Gunship....cheap to buy, quick mobility and better results always..!

 

[thrilainmanila]

I believe funding all these projects is a problem ....Who would not want to develop all those items which you've mentioned ...Our ballistic missiles are enough to counter the cold start doctrine of India ...However ...the ATGM system like Baktar Shekan is a combat proven one ...I would personally prefer ATGM vs Tank and MANPAD against Gunship....cheap to buy, quick mobility and better results always..!

an al-khalid tank costs something like 1 million USD per tank. The army plans to make 100s of them. there just sitting ducks the M113 can be converted into IFVs and it won't be that expensive. as for the HJ-8s they are too big and cumbersome the army needs the RPG-29(which has been proven to be effective against western tanks such as the M1A1 and challenger 2)

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Combat system like Baktar Shiken are useful systems , I mean 1-2 Soldiers can take out perhaps 1-2 Tanks from Distance
Cheap and effective however , the implication of using a proper Battle ready helicopter Gun Ship offers the Tank Group to move forward at rapid pace with Areal protection of a Gun Ship helicopter combo in air.

Mi-35 Gives us 30-40 anti Tank Rockets and Air-Air options as well

Baktar Shiken is perhaps like a knief that cuts thru steak or meat

Mi-35 is more less like a SWORD

 

[thrilainmanila]

if you look at videos on ******** and type HJ-8 red arrow in allot of the videos the missles just bounce off the T-72s. they don't appear that effective. perhaps the pak army have a more modern warhead with better penetration etc.

 

[Sage]

an al-khalid tank costs something like 1 million USD per tank. The army plans to make 100s of them. there just sitting ducks the M113 can be converted into IFVs and it won't be that expensive. as for the HJ-8s they are too big and cumbersome the army needs the RPG-29(which has been proven to be effective against western tanks such as the M1A1 and challenger 2)

Compare the range of HJ-8 to that of RPG-29 and you know the difference yourself ...both these weapons are used in different scenarios ...HJ-8 can take out any take in the world ...they may not accept it but MANPADS can do enough damage to stop the enemy advance ...should we go for a news MANPAD system...I think we should go for HJ-12 Red Arrow.....!

if you look at videos on ******** and type HJ-8 red arrow in allot of the videos the missiles just bounce off the T-72s. they don't appear that effective. perhaps the Pak army have a more modern warhead with better penetration etc.

It depends which round are you using ...Pakistan has an assortment of different rounds both for its tanks and MANPADS !

 

[Muhammad Omar]

 

[Sage]

View attachment 39836

Uncle Sam is playing another card ...Pak should not fall for this trap...US should be brave enough to digest the new Russo-Pak ties ....

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Uncle Sam is playing another card ...Pak should not fall for this trap...US should be brave enough to digest the new Russo-Pak ties ....

yupe they will give us apache then then same will happen just like cobras they will end in scrap

 

[fanna4paf2]

NO NEVER NOTHING FOREVER WE SHOULD NEVER AGREE ON THIS CONDITION IT WILL BE A 2ND BIGGEST MISTAKE AFTER INDEPENDENCE OF PAKISTAN WHEN PAKISTAN CHOOSE AMERICA

GOVERNMENT SHOULD GIVE CLEAR MESSAGE GIVE US IF YOU WANT OTHERWISE SHOW THEM MIDDLE FINGER OF HAND

AND WHAT IS GUARANTY THIS DEAL WILL FULFILL THERE ARE ALLOT OF STEP AND NEED APPROVALS FROM SENATE THEY WILL APPLY MORE CONDITION

YEH NA HO NA MI-35 RAHE NA APACHY

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]