Pakistan has offered Afghanistan US $20 million for training of ANSF

[RescueRanger]

The Pakistani state started nurturing terrorists fighting in Afghanistan long before there was a Mullah Radio in swat. I was referring to an ideal situation where both countries could help each other. However if Pakistani agencies insist on using foreign proxies to destabilize other countries than don't be surprised to be paid in the same coin.


You don't make any sense dude. What is NA? The no more existent alliance of warlords against Talibans? It doesn't exist anymore, you guys are still living in the late 1990s.


You conveniently disregard what your state agencies have been trying to do in Afghanistan for the last decade. Had Pakistan played a positive role or atleast not a negative one, post-taliban period, they would have been loved by Afghans. It's like helping somebody in need and when he can rebuild his own, you ask him to burn it and live on charity you provide him. The whole help you gave in the first place becomes meaningless...



Judging from the way you write i bet you have made a record of failing in school, if you even went to one in the first place. This ethnic group card can not be played anymore, there are more Pashtuns than other ethnic groups in ANA. Majority of the Generals in ANA are Pashtuns. It's actually PA which is dominated by Punjabis rather than Pashtuns. Anyways even though i am a Pashtun, i would prefer a Tajik/uzbek/Hazara Army soldier or Police rather than an ignorant Talib even if he is from my own village.







They way you guys are treating Mehsuds i'm not surprised the bulk of TTP are Pashtuns.

@RescueRanger How was your experience training afghani's?

Sir, i was only involved in training 2 batches of ANP Officers, i have worked on another project of capacity development in Afghanistan and i can tell you the situation is bad because some of the officers are really well meaning, but outside Kabul ANP has very little support in terms of numbers of Equipment, logistics or C2C or anything expected for a modern law enforcement agency:

Just to put things into perspective:

They way seniors deal with disciplinary issues is backward and leads to distension among ranks which reads to police siding with the Turdibans!

Then NATO (UK/USA) developed the ALP program: Afghan Local Police ( a sort of community levies)
Afghan Local Police Program - YouTube

However many of the members of these levies have been known to have strong links to the Taliban since security clearance and force vetting is nest to impossible in the country; no NADRA, no Verysis, no Bform, No Domicile, no Character certificate..... It's all a mess:
Vetting in Afghanistan: Issues with the Defense Department, State and USAID | Charity & Security Network

This lead to the a rise in green on blue "Afghan Friendly on NATO" attacks with 30 recorded in 2012 alone, this lead to NATO discontinuing the training for the ALP:
Local police, an uncertain player in Afghan future - YouTube

So to summaries.... SNAFU!

 

[Ahmad Shah Abdali]

Did you not read the report by the Pentagon?
Pentagon: Afghan forces will need help beyond 2014 | Online Athens

I never claimed ANSF won't need help. They would certainly need funding, equipments and training. They have the will to fight and most importantly people love them which further boosts their morale. From your own report "The report painted a largely positive picture of progress in strengthening the Afghan army and police" and "The report said that the amount of Afghan territory held by the insurgents has continued to shrink. It called the Taliban "less capable, less popular and less of an existential threat" to the Kabul government."

You cannot compare Pakistani police to Afghan Police. I have trained ANP, your guys need another 30 years to come to level we operate at.

ANP is not even yet doing missions with UN CIV POL, Pakistani police have been on civ pol missions as early as 1967. ANAP is corrupt to the core:

https://www.cimicweb.org/Documents/CFC AFG Security Archive/CFC_Afghanistan_Corruption-in-ANSF_Jan12.pdf

BBC News - Afghan police: Panorama uncovers corruption in Helmand bases

Are you trying to say Pakistani police are not corrupt?
ANP is corrupt and so are the police in almost all the countries in south asia. ANP have capable units among them and the video from ALP(militias) don't represent ANP in general.

CRU(Crisis Responce Unit) are also ANP

 

[RescueRanger]

I never claimed ANSF won't need help. They would certainly need funding, equipments and training. They have the will to fight and most importantly people love them which further boosts their morale. From your own report "The report painted a largely positive picture of progress in strengthening the Afghan army and police" and "The report said that the amount of Afghan territory held by the insurgents has continued to shrink. It called the Taliban "less capable, less popular and less of an existential threat" to the Kabul government."



Are you trying to say Pakistani police are not corrupt?
ANP is corrupt and so are the police in almost all the countries in south asia. ANP have capable units among them and the video from ALP(militias) don't represent ANP in general.

CRU(Crisis Responce Unit) are also ANP

Brother again i will tell you the same thing i told another Afghan member on this thread, no one wishes ill for Afghanistan here on this forum, despite what you think. It is good to be optimistic, but your law enforcement system is stretched too thin, is not sustainable and without direct foreign support cannot survive.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

there are more Pashtuns than other ethnic groups in ANA. Majority of the Generals in ANA are Pashtuns.

Sure they became a "majority" in just an year:


https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&...=G_TQJVoWJdo3wdel1sIJCw&bvm=bv.57155469,d.cGU


And no ethnic divisions:

https://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&...=_QTewtEZjm1I4c79DE5Fbw&bvm=bv.57155469,d.cGU

It's actually PA which is dominated by Punjabis rather than Pashtuns. Anyways even though i am a Pashtun, i would prefer a Tajik/uzbek/Hazara Army soldier or Police rather than an ignorant Talib even if he is from my own village.

Sure.. no wonder Yahya Khan,Abdul Waheed Kakar,Ayub kHAN,Gul Hassan Khan all Pashtun COAS of the "Punjab Army" ?

Not even counting the DGISI,etc or chiefs of airforce or the navy..

Even as of now... Pashtuns comprise over 40% of the Army... while FC almost entirely comprises of Pashtuns...

They way you guys are treating Mehsuds i'm not surprised the bulk of TTP are Pashtuns.

Cool story.. come out of your "lala land"...

Currently it's the Pashtuns who are the majority in ANA. The army chief is a Pashtun and so are the most of the senior generals. PA on the other hand is an absolute Punjabi force, how many generals in PA are pashtuns? When was the last time a Pashtun became the president of Pakistan?

lol... sure..

As for Pak Army ... there are several including one of the most senior generals ... who also commanded n conducted Ops in WOT..

As for Pashtun Presidents... i think Farhan has answered tht well..

 

[RescueRanger]

As for Pak Army ... there are several including one of the most senior generals ... who also commanded n conducted Ops in WOT..

As for Pashtun Presidents... i think Farhan has answered tht well..

Mara Ignore karo... This is why Afghan army/police/ anything will never be united.... We don't judge based on cast or creed... We don't need to quarrel over this, we have the likes of Lalak Jan and Shere Khan to testify to our UNITED army!

Mashallah!

 

[Meengla]

I am going to probably leave this thread after this. I don't want to embarrass our guest @Ahmad Shah Abdali : He seems less cocky than many Afghans here. In denial for sure but he is trying to build a bridge with Pakistan.
Many Afghans are cocky because they have the mightiest military and industrial powers supporting the, essentially a cobbled drug and warlord ruling elite. The world 'press' is hugely dictated by one lone power. So the Afghans--always superb underachievers--have found a way to blame all their problems on Pakistan--and the mighty world press is made to support that viewpoint.
But the Afghans need to realize that Pakistanis--even now--can't mean bad for them. There is not a Muslim country Pakistanis wouldn't mean well for. India is only a friend of Afghans because of strategic considerations. Indeed, if the Afghans ever bother to view Indians views about Islam itself (go to Bharat Rakshak forum) then the Afghans might know the reality some better.
Pakistan doesn't want or need the 'strategic depth' in Afghanistan. But Pakistan wants to deny India the strategic encirclement of Pakistan via Afghanistan. Unfortunately, being the most backward, the most violent, the most drug/war lord driven nation of Asia, Afghanistan makes it possible for others to use their soil for a staging ground against Pakistan (and possibly others, including even Iran).

 

[Amaa'n]

if we are willing to and have guts to ignore the culture, the past, and the present of Afghan people then, it would be much better if we should train them - after all we are the ones who actually trained their opponents - who they are fight against - still.
It is laughable that the govt had audacity to offer 20$million to a country who already is getting more than it needs from the developed counties in - especially when their own people people are sitting jobless and have no gas to cook the meal.....

 

[A.Rafay]

Afghan police @ 0:45

@DESERT FIGHTER

 

[bc040400065]

A major reason is that Afghans historically viewed that a major part of their land was annexed by the British and then given to Pakistan after partition. There is indeed some truth to that.

Well than They should also Know that for major part of history these two lands were part of one state. So should we pakistani consider kabul and khandhar as our lost land? No . Afghans should learn to live with the present border because If we kick all refugees out and close that border they might not last for long. Better they change their behavior because people on this side of the border don't just give a damn now for afghanistan. Afghans better focus on development of their land other than claiming others.

 

[Afghan-India]

Afghan police @ 0:45

@DESERT FIGHTER

Pakistani Police is no better, corrupt, weak and unprofessional.
The police problem is common in all South Asian countries

 

[acid rain]

Acid rain.. did it rain on ur head?

Instead of posting moronic bs.. you should have viewed this thread:

A few projects by Pakistan.. almost a billion $$ donated to Afghanistan:

Journey of Friendship - Pakistan's Assistance to Afghanistan

LOL, a blog posting and a couple of insipid buildings which are breeding grounds for ISI backed terrorists is worth a billion dollars???

As I said Pakistan could have better use for the funds that were spent on those two buildings and that 20 mill that you need desperately.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

LOL, a blog posting and a couple of insipid buildings which are breeding grounds for ISI backed terrorists is worth a billion dollars???

As I said Pakistan could have better use for the funds that were spent on those two buildings and that 20 mill that you need desperately.

Get ur head out of the gutter troll..

 

[RescueRanger]

Get ur head out of the gutter troll..

Won't happen, just ignore. Better for everyone

 

[pakistani342]

I guess the good news is:
1. The Afghans don't want it or need it.
2. The Pakistani people don't want to give it or can ill afford it.
The shame is that Pakistani leaders don't get it.

 

[Afghan-India]

I guess the good news is:
1. The Afghans don't want it or need it.
2. The Pakistani people don't want to give it or can ill afford it.
The shame is that Pakistani leaders don't get it.

One can not be that simply minded, when it comes to diplomacy.Pakistani leaders have an objective they want to get closer to, and therefore trying to help Afghanistan.