Pakistan has 2 Choices: Secularism or Death

[OrionHunter]

None of your worries. This is an internal matter. You are not welcome to comment on INTERNAL matters of Pakistan.

Similarly, the lack of toilet facilities in India is purely an internal matter, Lekin thum sab log comment karte ho!! Sheeesh!

You can't have the cake and eat it to, what?

 

[Hyperion]

Similarly, the lack of toilet facilities in India is purely an internal matter, Lekin thum sab log comment karte ho!! Sheeesh!

You can't have the cake and eat it to, what?

Nahin yaar... Never commented mate... I never interfere in anyones business

 

[batmannow]

I drank like a f**** russian while I was a student (trust me, no sane human can drink that much and survive) and never got addicted to it. However, sadly, leaving NISWAR was like cutting my balls off, or something very close! It literally hurts that bad, I mean the withdrawal


Note: Sorry Orion, didn't know - it was auto-defense mechanism that kicked in

See, I even thanked you to make-up for it!

Dear sir,
Which one black or green?
Me too, but now I am heavy scotch lover, I know its wrong ,bt its me , let me hit the fan plz.


Btw , its not important that we. Must follow westrn secularism, the best secularism I see in this world is from iran, would you guys like pakistan start practicing secularism like iran?
No!
Then don't push us more , you morans!
Keep your s.h...t , in ur pants.

 

[Armstrong]

I drank like a f**** russian while I was a student (trust me, no sane human can drink that much and survive) and never got addicted to it. However, sadly, leaving NISWAR was like cutting my balls off, or something very close! It literally hurts that bad, I mean the withdrawal


Note: Sorry Orion, didn't know - it was auto-defense mechanism that kicked in

Orion, more to the point: Think about it, I am a tribal and my view are as such... so, basically anything is possible, isn't it?

Dude, you're a...*how should I put this*...a gulaaaby Tribal ! I'd kick your butttt with a cigarette in one hand and a naswar in the mouth without breaking a sweat !

Jeez...dude its just tobacco ! *cutting off your what...?*

Similarly, the lack of toilet facilities in India is purely an internal matter, Lekin thum sab log comment karte ho!! Sheeesh!

You can't have the cake and eat it to, what?

Nahin yaaar kaaab kiyaaa...tumhein tumhaarei toilet mubaaraaak with all that the 'Internal Matters' have done there in.

 

[K-Xeroid]

Pakistan is created in the name of religion .So to call for making it it secular would be an oxymoron.

Soon it'll soon argued that if Pakistan was secular whats was point of partition since Pakistan could have reminded as part of India which is a secular state .

So neither Pakistan is going join India nor it can be secular state . It was an Islamic state in the past and going to remain so as long as it exists.

That is also among one of the solid reason. We are breaking india risking millions of lifes and yet we came to know that Pakistan is going to be a secular? then wats the point to break india?

 

[OrionHunter]

Note: Sorry Orion, didn't know - it was auto-defense mechanism that kicked in

Orion, more to the point: Think about it, I am a tribal and my view are as such... so, basically anything is possible, isn't it?

Relax yaar! No hard feelings!

 

[Rahil khan]

So !!!!
Well I think he's just a kid, and totally depends on its sources and elders, Lets ignore his comment when their is nothing sane to read in it.

Try to debate with arguments. Not with the typical teenage reaction.

 

[batmannow]

Similarly, the lack of toilet facilities in India is purely an internal matter, Lekin thum sab log comment karte ho!! Sheeesh!

You can't have the cake and eat it to, what?

But you will not seen , pakistnis posting threads on indian political crunt affairs section, just for decent trolling?
Btw in this way we , pakistanis are more secular than you guys, we mind our bussines , we don't make our hands & mouth dirty with someone else. S ¤¤¤h¤¤¤¤ts

 

[K-Xeroid]

Try to debate with arguments. Not with the typical teenage reaction.

Ow! Yup!

 

[Hyperion]

Yara, doesn't matter at all about the color. Although, I know that the street vendor will tell you to the contrary, and hype one product over the other, just to make a quick buck! So, no worries. If you like Niswar, you're one of us

By the way, there is no need to consume alcohol in Pakistan, where you have suchh wonderful green stuff

Dear sir,
Which one black or green?
Me too, but now I am heavy scotch lover, I know its wrong ,bt its me , let me hit the fan plz.


Btw , its not important that we. Must follow westrn secularism, the best secularism I see in this world is from iran, would you guys like pakistan start practicing secularism like iran?
No!
Then don't push us more , you morans!
Keep your s.h...t , in ur pants.

 

[Rahil khan]

Ow! Yup!

Proves my point.

 

[K-Xeroid]

Proves my point.

After all experience has its own class.. , So any other advice for me? Plz.

 

[Luffy 500]

No muslim country can ever be Suckular. Suckularism is in complete contradiction with the teachings of ISLAM and only munafiqs and some naive confused muslims can advocate such saitanic ideology. Allah(swt) already warned muslims about this kind
of secular advocates in the Quran. Islam provides a complete code of life from economic system of trade and commerce to law and order, military, social and family affairs that will always keeps up with time since its prescribed by Allah(swt) and not
man-made. Its rather time and the world that has to keep up with Quran and it will be like this till the end of time.

Islamization is a gradual step.Seculars are a minority in the muslims world anyway but they are a nuisance and an obstacle to
development . So certified scholars/Ulemas should be mobilized to bring back such confused people back to the right path. Quranic teachings in the local language should be compulsory
Through out school life which will help bring up pious muslim citizens.
A muslim country should first start by introducing sharia laws for criminal codes like punishment of murder,rape and
robbery should be sharia based. Then Alcohol should be banned except for non-muslims and foreign dignatories. Sharia
banking system should be robustly funded. This should be the first step for every muslim country. Everything else will slowly fall into place.

 

[Hyperion]

No disrespect friend. Why not preach this in the BD section. Please no advice of any sort from non Pakistanis has ever been solicited. Cheers and disappear now.

No muslim country can ever be Suckular. Suckularism is in complete contradiction with the teachings of ISLAM and only munafiqs and some naive confused muslims can advocate such saitanic ideology. Allah(swt) already warned muslims about this kind
of secular advocates in the Quran. Islam provides a complete code of life from economic system of trade and commerce to law and order, military, social and family affairs that will always keeps up with time since its prescribed by Allah(swt) and not
man-made. Its rather time and the world has to keep up with Quran and it will be like this till the end of time.

Islamization is a gradual step.Seculars are a minority in the muslims world anyway but they are a nuisance and an obstacle to
development . So certified scholars/Ulemas should be mobilized to bring back such confused people back to the right path.
A muslim country should first start by introducing sharia laws for criminal codes like punishment of murder,rape and
robbery should be sharia based. Then Alcohol should be banned except for non-muslims and foreign signatories. Sharia
banking system should be robustly funded. This should be the first step for every muslim country.

 

[Kompromat]

phew , i cannot believe i am replying this.

The way i look at it is this.

Author makes the case over a singular conceptual society where there is no place of diversity , sects , difference of opinion , difference over belief structure etc as a basic requirement for Pakistan's survival. Which i find ludicrous as there are no traces of religious conflicts being fought by different sects of Islam solely and purely because of their religious convictions. I have first hand experience of seeing some of them and speaking to people who were involved in them. Surprisingly , none of them were motivated out of their religious convictions alone but by monetary benefits , personal hatred , property conflicts and so on without forgetting the role of KSA & Iran funding salafis & shia'a extremist proxies to export their version in Pakistan.

Sectarian conflicts in Pakistan have largely been motivated by political gains and what i stated above. The author after posting a few warnings and posting a few wiki links goes on about trying to establish a Nazi like "pure Sunni" Pakistan by expelling all other minorities and then not being able to establish the utopia because Sunnis themselves are divided into further sects.
I hate to say this , but no one in Pakistan is trying to establish such a singularity as author states , because there is no singularity. Just because sects don't go along well with each other , does not mean they cannot coexist. In context of an Islamic state the author gives examples of S-Arabia and Iran which by far are not Islamic states by any measure and therefore are not an example of an Islamic state.

Author makes the case that stone worshipers , monkey , elephant worshipers can start considering themselves Muslims and would become so. Well its stupid to believe that there is such a possibility as there are clear cut conditions of Eman stated in Islam , people who don't meet them cannot recognize themselves as muslims. The idea that an Islamic state would go to surgical level to root out what author believes maybe non muslims according to minorities is flawed. Personally i believe , that the current model with Pakistan having a moderate system of governance which allowed Sunnis , Shias to held top posts as PMs and Presidents [Current President is Shia & PM is a Sunni] can allow a Hindu to become a Supreme court judge , allow an Ahmadi to become Foreign minister would work fine if we work to refine it. There is never going to be a blanket system of governance in Islam as there are differences between sects but that does not mean just because there can't be a blanket system those groups cannot co-exist , thats social evolution and it eventually will reach an equilibrium.


Lastly the author thinks that for Pakistan its either secularism or death , well no one in their right minds will believe that even in a secular Pakistan , sunnis will stop becoming sunnis , their sub sections will stop becoming who they are , shias will stop becoming shias , ahmadis will stop becoming ahmadis , christians will stop becoming christians and there would be a utopia where all of them will coexist just because the state authority is secular. I would suggest my dear author to study the history of Iran during Shah era when he tried to impose secularism overnight , tried to get women to dress in skirts and bikinis. It backfired and the product of that experiment is current Iranian society.

Maybe i am naive but Diverse Social make up of a society is not necessarily an evil thing to begin with , variations i beliefs , customs , culture make a country a rainbow nation. It works well provided the system of governance facilitates that. Having said that , i can give dozens of examples of hardcore secular countries who have repeatedly discriminated against minorities and still as we speak are subjecting them to heinous mistreatment.


In my personal opinion , Pakistan needs to preserve its ideological boundaries , it needs to preserve its Islamic pretext but in order to do that it does not need to be a country run by Mullahs. Pakistani public has proven that by not electing JUI or other Mullah parties time and again. Pakistan needs to find an equilibrium between western democracy and its Islamic values while living within a democratic culture in order to facilitate our diversity. I personally look at the half glass full & believe that one day every Shia , Sunni will get over their collective hatred through social evolution and would create a balanced society for every Pakistani to cherish. IMHO its not between Secularism or death.

Regards:

PS- We do not allow threads on religious topics so please do not expect this thread to go on for long.