Pakistan FUTURE soldier Program Ambitions

[A1Kaid]

This thread is about the Army and not the FC. Lets stick to one issue at a time. FC is a paramilitary, different budget, different priorities etc. etc.

That's fine, but even many Army soldiers are dispatched in open pick up trucks used by Army, they provide inadequate protection to the soldiers so that when they come under fire or hit by explosion casualty rates are higher than had they been in a protected armored vehicle.

Soldiers should always be in armored protected vehicles when conducting patrol especially in hostile territory.

 

[blain2]

Well there you have to think about the problem. Pakistan has significant armoured personnel carrier capability but it is all tracked. What is needed in that terrain is a wheeled platform. Which means that you need to either up armour the existing wheeled vehicles (Toyota Hilux etc.) or introduce a fully mission built platform which means even greater capital outlay than what the 22% of the defence budget allows for. New MRAPs are being introduced, but its a costly proposition. So that expense aside, the idea is you modernize what is possible so as a result, a stop gap measure was introduced putting protective plates on the sides of the vehicles. Providing more firepower to the infantry is another area under works currently. So what is possible is being done. If we want all of the gear that you see the Western Armies deploying then more of us Pakistanis need to pay taxes. It quite simple.

 

[A1Kaid]

Well there you have to think about the problem. Pakistan has significant armoured/protected capability but it is all tracked. What is needed in that terrain is a wheeled platform. Which means that you need to either up armour the existing wheeled vehicles (Toyota Hilux etc.) or introduce a fully mission built platform which means even greater capital outlay than what the 22% of the defence budget allows for. New MRAPs are being introduced, but its a costly proposition.

So what is your recommendation what specific type of vehicle should PA be using in the terrain.

 

[blain2]

So what is your recommendation what specific type of vehicle should PA be using in the terrain.

A1, I don't have a specific recommendation as I am not in the business of looking at pictures and information on the Web and making suggestions. Its the responsibility of the MVRDE to come up with a response and if they cannot, then it will be the Army who would be recommending a solution from overseas to the MoD. What I know is that a platform developed by the MVRDE is being introduced. We will have to see how their survivability is compared to the Toyota trucks being used. I am pretty sure its better but by how much and what the overall cost is, is all unknown to me.

 

[A1Kaid]

A1, I don't have a specific recommendation as I am not in the business of looking at pictures and information on the Web and making suggestions. Its the responsibility of the MVRDE to come up with a response and if they cannot, then it will be the Army who would be recommending a solution from overseas to the MoD. What I know is that a platform developed by the MVRDE is being introduced. We will have to see how their survivability is compared to the Toyota trucks being used. I am pretty sure its better but by how much and what the overall cost is, is all unknown to me.

Great can't wait to see what MVRDE has engineered, certainly has to be better than the current fleet of Toyota trucks.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

My cousin who is a Captain has just returned from "Hard Area" in KPK, he was saying that 80% of casualties PA suffered are due to IED's and ambushes of convoys. He said, that the standard PA transport vehicles Toyata Hilux and Shehzore mini truck are both extremely unsafe. Those vehicles for sundry duties in peace time may have been fine, but in hostile territory, these are responsible for huge casualties. He said that whenever one is ambushed, the SoP is to drive as fast as possible to flee the incoming fire. The loaded Shehzore truck in such situations at high-speeds tends to turn-turtle, after which the soldiers within becomes an easy prey for militants.
Its the sad situation to say the least.

 

[blain2]

My cousin who is a Captain has just returned from "Hard Area" in KPK, he was saying that 80% of casualties PA suffered are due to IED's and ambushes of convoys. He said, that the standard PA transport vehicles Toyata Hilux and Shehzore mini truck are both extremely unsafe. Those vehicles for sundry duties in peace time may have been fine, but in hostile territory, these are responsible for huge casualties. He said that whenever one is ambushed, the SoP is to drive as fast as possible to flee the incoming fire. The loaded Shehzore truck in such situations at high-speeds tends to turn-turtle, after which the soldiers within becomes an easy prey for militants.
Its the sad situation to say the least.

Well this is my point to those who complain about the defence budget. Wars are expensive and its a clear cut decision that the protection for the troops needs to be first priority. But I know funding for MRAPs of foreign origin has not been approved due to continued funding problems. This is a sad story given that the military gets flak while fighting a war and yet does not get sufficient funding to protect its troops.

By the way, the SOP is the same across the border for ISAF. This is one of the shared practices. The difference in their case is that they travel in relatively safer vehicles.

 

[Jango]

So what is your recommendation what specific type of vehicle should PA be using in the terrain.

PA was looking at Casspir MRAP and also a Chinese one.

The HIT made BUrraq is also in development.

 

[Reddawn]

Blain2 when you mentioned that MVRDE are introducing a new vehicle are you talking about the Burraq MRAP?

 

[qamar1990]

Oh Bhai ...........WHAT future soldier are we talking about here!!

Your average Infantry Man is currently a low paid grunt belonging to some Kot or Chak No.42 in Punjab or a Pathan from some remote rock part of KPK!!! Army gives him employment & benefits to shoot in the direction ordered & he does that without question before retiring and then getting in line as an old man for his pension or being hired by some security company as a guard on Rs.6000-Rs.7000 per month!!! During his service he looks like a starved Ethopian holding a G-3 that is as tall as he is!!! He is fed Daal and ordinary roti on permanent basis while pullao is an occasional Eid for the entire company!! He works like a dog during peace time generally doing orderly duties for the Col Sb or Major Sb from polishing shoes to fetching rotis from the local tandoor!!!

Whatever remains goes into the SSG and pose for the cameras to get photos above!!!!

So I ask again, WHAT FUTURE SOLDIER ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

ok so what does the soldier belonging to chak no 42 or being a pathan have to do with anything?

the things you talking about ar about right but no need to bring up where they from, that doesnt make them any less capable, that they actually more brave since most our soldiers are from places like this and they still fighting, instead of running.

 

[blain2]

Blain2 when you mentioned that MVRDE are introducing a new vehicle are you talking about the Burraq MRAP?

Yes. based on the funding availability, it seems this is the only option available. As to how quickly they get them out to the units is an unknown. It has been undergoing testing for about 1.5-2 years now.

 

[Reddawn]

Thanks Blain2. It would be interesting to find out why HIT chose the IMI Wildcat design over others.....

 

[blain2]

Yes it would be although I am not privy to the design origin.

 

[farhan_9909]

PA was looking at Casspir MRAP and also a Chinese one.

The HIT made BUrraq is also in development.

Burraq is ready,it depends whether army orders burraq or not

Casspir imported in very less quantity(from gulf state or SA?) and is already being stripped down in HIT for a possible rip off

Chinese MRAP already ordered in unknown quantity as a stop gap measure

 

[Jango]

Burraq is ready,it depends whether army orders burraq or not

I read somewhere that HIT has recently declared the Burraq almost combat ready with a few more trials left.