Pakistan fires 21 more rockets in Kunar province

[Menace2Society]

An Islamic rule &system for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is the only solution to the challenges Pakistan faces today.

This worshiping of Jinnah for the past 60 years has made us a laughing stock in the eyes of our enemies and allies alike.

A moderate democratic system is the only solution. Not your ISIS wet dream.

 

[Kompromat]

I'm sure Afghans are cooperating with us, however they do have to issue condemnation in public.

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

An Islamic rule &system for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is the only solution to the challenges Pakistan faces today.

This worshiping of Jinnah for the past 60 years has made us a laughing stock in the eyes of our enemies and allies alike.

I beg to differ. The scale of the process involved in completely replacing an existing system with one that has not been tried, tested or fielded in any state since the collapse of the rudimentary Ottoman Caliphate over a hundred years ago poses questions of unprecedented administrative implications. Of course you can quell my fears and cite the Kingdom of Brunei as an example, which recently adopted Sharia as the mainstay of its legal justice system, but even then I would hold my stance for the simple reason that Brunei only encoded the punishments of Sharia and did not impose the Islamic method of ruling, which is the Caliphate.

In simple, layman terms the problem with replacing a functional system with a completely different and potentially irreconcilable one is twofold, in addition, of course, to the multitude of foreign factors that immediately come into play whenever there is talk of an Islamic state:

1. National and Regional Consensus
2. Administrative Paradox

Before a system is completely revamped, the proponents of the revamp must have the political backing of the people who are governed by that system. Qadri brought the Islamic revolution to us from Canada, but not a single person budged (save for the couple thousand who took to the streets to injure policemen on the day of his arrival, lol). Why? Because Pakistanis at this juncture of their political development do not see the charm of a Caliphate, not because they are any less Muslims than the others proposing the system, but because they see an opportunity to make the present system work. Case in point: IK and his loyal jiyalas whose message I very much concur with - electoral reforms! Will of the people! The fact of the matter is the present democratic system can be used to work in ways which was unfathomable at the time of our conception. The increasing rate of literacy, the surge in private wealth and an ever-weakening hold of the feudal system have all contributed to increased interest in national politics and rule-making and inadvertently begun to benefit our socio-political framework. Pakistan is finally taking baby-steps to belonging to its people, rather than the 'vadairas' that have run this party since time immemorial.

The administrative implications which I want to mention briefly, are the practical ramifications of a systemic purge. If a pure Islamic Caliphate is to be brought, does it come through an Act of Parliament? Or do you just kind of burn the Parliament to the ground and erect a minaret? What happens to all the state-institutions which you have spent the past 6 decades building. The semi-autonomous bodies such as NEPRA, PEMRA, SECP, CCP, the judicature, the Ministries, the civil servants all of whom inherit functional authority from the auspices of the Parliament and its enactments would be rendered void and their authority revoked...solely because the Parliament itself had no authority to start with - since the Caliph of the Muslim Ummah dictates as he so wills and pleases. The administrative repercussions are huge!

Even if he were to ratify the Parliament and give his post facto approval to all that Pakistan has become (laws, ministries, institutions etc.), the change of system would render the current legal system inoperative over-night, simply because it is entirely based on Parliamentary laws. Since Allah is the only law-making authority and no man can make law to govern himself, those laws, on which the current judicial system operates, would be rendered ineffective per se, and so the judiciary would be without any legal grounding. There would be chaos until a new system is put in place - and don't think Qazis would be easy to come by. Can you remind us what the pre-requisites for the appointment of a Qazi are?

Here's the alternative to a complete system shut-down: Use the tools of the current system

Section 203D(3) of the Constitution of Pakistan, 1973 enunciates that " If any law or provision of law is held by the Court to be repugnant to the Injunctions of Islam:

(a) the President in the case of a law with respect to a matter in the Federal Legislative List or the Concurrent Legislative List, or the Governor in the case of a law with respect to a matter not enumerated in either of those Lists, shall take steps to amend the law so as to bring such law or provision into conformity with the Injunctions of Islam; and

(b) such law or provision shall, to the extent to which it is held to be so repugnant, cease to have effect on the day on which the decision of the Court takes effect.

We are already an Islamic state. Our Constitution is rife with praise for Islam and stresses that all legal restrictions imposed on the freedom of speech should be for the "glory of Islam"... If there is anything which hinders the implementation of an Islamic system of governing, it can remedied to the extent of the Constitution.

If you ask me my opinion, I'd rather be run by a pack-full of idiots who I can remove at the end of a 5 year term, than a madman who I have to put up with till death takes him to a better place.

 

[FaujHistorian]

An Islamic rule &system for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is the only solution to the challenges Pakistan faces today.

This worshiping of Jinnah for the past 60 years has made us a laughing stock in the eyes of our enemies and allies alike.

na 9 mund tail hoga
Na Radha naachay gee

(catch-22)

I beg to differ.

Sir you just got trolled.

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

na 9 mund tail hoga
Na Radha naachay gee

(catch-22)

Sir you just got trolled.

Lol. I got it half-way and realized what an idiot I would look like writing such a lengthy response to such an insolent post, but I decided to continue writing anyway. Haha. What can I say, I'm pro-speech.

 

[Thorough Pro]

That's the benefit of being an armchair general! Apparently your sissy army can never get that delusional.

Next time there is an attack in J&K India should bomb those camps in Azad Kashmir!

 

[Icarus]

An Islamic rule &system for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is the only solution to the challenges Pakistan faces today.

This worshiping of Jinnah for the past 60 years has made us a laughing stock in the eyes of our enemies and allies alike.

I would like to disagree, The worshiping of Jinnah is the only thing that's kept this country together, the doctrine of Islamic Nationalism has been tried and failed, with miserable results I might add. There is no "Islamic Rule and System" there are sublets for each sectarian groups that fall in disagreement with beliefs of others and thus seed further division and discontent.
Our future rests in the establishment of a secular nationalist, socialist republic.

 

[Contrarian]

Exactly my point! Thank you my good man!

By the same token Pakistani's should be happy that US bombs NWA. Or that India shells Azad Kashmir to target camps.

Thats not how it works. This is sheer hypocrisy on Pakistan's part. They cry when US does it, but they do it to Afghanistan.

 

[Icarus]

By the same token Pakistani's should be happy that US bombs NWA.

The US does already fire hellfires in that same 10,000 sq km area, most of which consists of NWA.

Or that India shells Azad Kashmir to target camps.

India has NEVER been able to produce evidence of a single camp operating in Azad Kashmir, these are hollow allegations and nothing more.

Thats not how it works. This is sheer hypocrisy on Pakistan's part. They cry when US does it, but they do it to Afghanistan.

If Kunnar is being used as base of operations against Pakistan and the Afghan government has failed to do anything about it, then it has to be dealt with accordingly, there have been a number of cross-border raids from Kunnar that have resulted in the deaths of Pakistani servicemen. Any such instances deserve a befitting response.

 

[Contrarian]

I would like to disagree, The worshiping of Jinnah is the only thing that's kept this country together, the doctrine of Islamic Nationalism has been tried and failed, with miserable results I might add. There is no "Islamic Rule and System" there are sublets for each sectarian groups that fall in disagreement with beliefs of others and thus seed further division and discontent.
Our future rests in the establishment of a secular nationalist, socialist republic.

Do you know that the majority of the Pakistani people will vehemently disagree with thought.

How do you know your future rests as a secular socialist republic when it can never be acceptable to the people of Pakistan. You make this claim based on some evidence or is this a wish(not that there is anything wrong) about how you would like Pakistan to be in the future?

The US does already fire hellfires in that same 10,000 sq km area, most of which consists of NWA.
India has NEVER been able to produce evidence of a single camp operating in Azad Kashmir, these are follow allegations and nothing more.
If Kunnar is being used as base of operations against Pakistan and the Afghan government has failed to do anything about it, then it has to be dealt with accordingly, there have been a number of cross-border raids from Kunnar that have resulted in the deaths of Pakistani servicemen. Any such instances deserve a befitting response.

I dont doubt the necessity of your Army in targeting kunar. Far from it, I know its important.
But my question was that when the same happens to Pakistan, Pakistani's cry their heart out on everything about their sovereignty, but are very comfortable in doing it to Afghanistan.

 

[Icarus]

Do you know that the majority of the Pakistani people will vehemently disagree with thought.

How do you know your future rests as a secular socialist republic when it can never be acceptable to the people of Pakistan. You make this claim based on some evidence or is this a wish(not that there is anything wrong) about how you would like Pakistan to be in the future?

It is my wish and the idea has been catching some traction, but we are still far from anything of substance. The left lives in constant hope in Pakistan, little progress, but plenty of hope.

Do you know that the majority of the Pakistani people will vehemently disagree with thought.

How do you know your future rests as a secular socialist republic when it can never be acceptable to the people of Pakistan. You make this claim based on some evidence or is this a wish(not that there is anything wrong) about how you would like Pakistan to be in the future?


I dont doubt the necessity of your Army in targeting kunar. Far from it, I know its important.
But my question was that when the same happens to Pakistan, Pakistani's cry their heart out on everything about their sovereignty, but are very comfortable in doing it to Afghanistan.

The people will protest, the government will protest, its natural but its safe to say that sovereignty has already been breached by the Taliban and the US bombing the area does not qualify as a breach of sovereignty because the area is already out of our control. The OBL raid is what I would call a breach of sovereignty.

 

[janon]

I would like to disagree, The worshiping of Jinnah is the only thing that's kept this country together, the doctrine of Islamic Nationalism has been tried and failed, with miserable results I might add. There is no "Islamic Rule and System" there are sublets for each sectarian groups that fall in disagreement with beliefs of others and thus seed further division and discontent.
Our future rests in the establishment of a secular nationalist, socialist republic.

Agree with all of it, except the "socialist" part. That's the ideology that kept India in poverty for the first five decades of her existence. A secular, free market oriented democratic republic is what you need. If you look around the world, such countries have been the most succesful. S Korea, Japan, western Europe...

Not just in material prosperity, but also in social harmony.

 

[Contrarian]

It is my wish and the idea has been catching some traction, but we are still far from anything of substance. The left lives in constant hope in Pakistan, little progress, but plenty of hope.

What has the left got to do with this?
Secularism is not a leftist concept. Heck even the Right in India does not proclaim that secularism should be removed from our constitution.

The people will protest, the government will protest, its natural but its safe to say that sovereignty has already been breached by the Taliban and the US bombing the area does not qualify as a breach of sovereignty because the area is already out of our control. The OBL raid is what I would call a breach of sovereignty.

Why the gap in perception?
And what prevents Pakistan from making FATA as a province? That would completely change the way of life of FATA and develop government writ and government culture there. Basically a game changer for the region - having a CM and all.

 

[Icarus]

Agree with all of it, except the "socialist" part. That's the ideology that kept India in poverty for the first five decades of her existence. A secular, free market oriented democratic republic is what you need. If you look around the world, such countries have been the most succesful. S Korea, Japan, western Europe...

Not just in material prosperity, but also in social harmony.

Socialism need not be chains to progress if a system suitable for the host population is implemented, Nordic Socialism is a working example of a society that balances socialism with the means to engage in free market trade and commerce. The country resultantly enjoys income equality, social support and a thriving economy.

What has the left got to do with this?
Secularism is not a leftist concept. Heck even the Right in India does not proclaim that secularism should be removed from our constitution.

Socialism is a leftist conflict, I was hinting to that.

Why the gap in perception?
And what prevents Pakistan from making FATA as a province? That would completely change the way of life of FATA and develop government writ and government culture there. Basically a game changer for the region - having a CM and all.

Because Abbottabad was under the control of the Pakistan government at the time of the raid whereas NWA was under Taliban control.
Basically, when the tribals agreed to join Pakistan, they had a pact whereby their semi-autonomous status will not be disturbed. The system worked fine until the Afghan Jihad introduced foreigners to the area and broke down the barrier of xenophobia that was so essential to the tribal way of life. The rise of the mullah weakened the position of the Khan who was the primary mechanism of social control and then we landed in the mess that we find ourselves in today.

 

[Bang Galore]

Socialism need not be chains to progress if a system suitable for the host population is implemented, Nordic Socialism is a working example of a society that balances socialism with the means to engage in free market trade and commerce. The country resultantly enjoys income equality, social support and a thriving economy.

Not accurate examples. Those countries are rich in natural resporces & have a very small population (technically everyone in Norway is a millionaire because the value of the sovereign wealth fund is over a trillion dollars), hardly the same as India. Saudi Arabia & other oil countries can afford socialism of the type you suggest. Simply unworkable in countries like India.