Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Kompromat]

@Storm Force

Stop using caps, you are hurting my eyes.

 

[Storm Force]

Sorry aero

 

[Viper0011.]

63 F16s (18 block 52S) WILL GIVE iaf A HEADACHE but is not unsurmoutable (WAT YOU HAVE TODAY)
125 F16 (60 block 52) will give PAF air superiority at least over THEIR AIRS[PACE (WAT YOU NEED TODAY)

Being a fair person that I am, I like to give credit to where it deserves. You and I have had some lengthy discussions where you go out of reality on projecting India being a supreme power.

But this post surprised me as it is a VERY realistic and honest assessment. So a BIG thank you. Productive discussions only happen when people are realistic.

I think the same. In fact, I think PAF should procure F-16 B52's in larger numbers like you said. Then keep upgrading the JFT to BII and BIII standards. Skip the J-10 all together. Acquire four squadrons of J-11's with J-16's avionics (as they are much more advanced). Later, bite the bullet one time and get the J-31X stealth planes a few squadrons. That makes it a very complete and strong air force. It also gives them air superiority over their own skies in a very big way

 

[BATMAN]

No F-16 block-52 carries anything as such as a IRST system. The picture is a Rafale which even the canopy dictates.
The only operational F-16 with an IRST is the UAE Block-60.

Didn't F-16 had boom type refueling?

 

[SQ8]

Didn't F-16 had boom type refueling?

They do, located behind the cockpit

In fact, I think PAF should procure F-16 B52's in larger numbers like you said

It would be great it you could write to your local congressman and senator to push for it

 

[Viper0011.]

It would be great it you could write to your local congressman and senator to push for it

My local congressman doesn't decide who gets the F-16's. The foreign policy does. For once, I agree with Storm Force. LEARN how to communicate with the Americans in the language that they understand and it is built upon mutual trust and through establishing a good relationship.

You guys never had democracy prevail in your country. Result of that was that every dictator in power came to Washington and complained about its own people turning bad and how they would become a threat to others. That's how they got the aid, weapons, etc.

Now you guys do have a democratically elected government. What that means is that they should come to Washington and show the will to work as a partner with the Americans (and with the world). Once the West starts to see the intensity and the talibanization going away from the Pakistani society, I can't see why the F-16's which are really yesterday's technology for the US will be a problem.

 

[Gentelman]

My local congressman doesn't decide who gets the F-16's. The foreign policy does. For once, I agree with Storm Force. LEARN how to communicate with the Americans in the language that they understand and it is built upon mutual trust and through establishing a good relationship.

You guys never had democracy prevail in your country. Result of that was that every dictator in power came to Washington and complained about its own people turning bad and how they would become a threat to others. That's how they got the aid, weapons, etc.

Now you guys do have a democratically elected government. What that means is that they should come to Washington and show the will to work as a partner with the Americans (and with the world). Once the West starts to see the intensity and the talibanization going away from the Pakistani society, I can't see why the F-16's which are really yesterday's technology for the US will be a problem.

PAF don't want US weaponary and in case of Block 52 the PAF is prefreing J-10 with no string attached and with AESW radar and comparable to 52 and cheaper……
but it has engine problems along with some other probs to overcome……
well I suppose around 2016+ all its avionics and radar etc would be upgraded and all probs would be solved……
it would be what PAF want……
F-16 refulling AWACS prob with ZDK and uncertainity make it less preferable but EFT or Rafael would have been considered if were available……

 

[airmarshal]

I do agree with people here who say Pakistan does not want US technology. It comes with a lot of strings attached and US policy towards Pakistan has been very fickle.

I agree with a large number of F-16s, Pakistan will have air superiority at least in their own skies. But there is a big IF involved here which Pakistan may not want to risk.

Upgrading current F-16s to Block 52s is the way to go.

In the long run, no matter how much money we have and how many expensive weapons we can buy, there is no substitute to local development and production of weapons. That is the long shot but this is the way to go for sustainable defense.

 

[Last Hope]

PAF don't want US weaponary and in case of Block 52 the PAF is prefreing J-10 with no string attached and with AESW radar and comparable to 52 and cheaper……

Wrong. PAF wants US weapons. It is the strings they don't want.

 

[SQ8]

My local congressman doesn't decide who gets the F-16's. The foreign policy does. For once, I agree with Storm Force. LEARN how to communicate with the Americans in the language that they understand and it is built upon mutual trust and through establishing a good relationship.

You guys never had democracy prevail in your country. Result of that was that every dictator in power came to Washington and complained about its own people turning bad and how they would become a threat to others. That's how they got the aid, weapons, etc.

Now you guys do have a democratically elected government. What that means is that they should come to Washington and show the will to work as a partner with the Americans (and with the world). Once the West starts to see the intensity and the talibanization going away from the Pakistani society, I can't see why the F-16's which are really yesterday's technology for the US will be a problem.

The F-16's have nothing to do with Talibanizaition, they never did. Which means the wrong narrative gets sent back from CNN.
The F-16's are related with maintaining the balance with India, and congressional hearings prove that it is truly the case and nothing else. Moreover, the secondary worry about the F-16's is China even after it has been made clear that the Chinese do not have access to the US equipment anymore. Heck if anything, its usually ourselves who were trying to reverse engineer it SO that when(and not if) you do leave the area and renege on your pledges for co-operation and mutual understanding.. there is at least something we can get out of it. With the new Block-52's monitored by multiple safeguards.. and the MLU's as well.. nothing of that sort happens anymore.
Sounds short sighted, but history has been a hard teacher in this regard. The F-16's are the most capable fighter in our inventory but they are also very very fragile in terms of reliance. To expect that the United States to stop wooing up to their Sheriff to be in South Asia and be ready to arm us to an extent that changes the scales by even a bit is to expect too much of us.

So while the F-16's are a great frontline force, I would not bank on them as the sole savior. Because at the end of the day, economics dictate US foreign policy(otherwise extremism and HR violations extends way beyond Pakistan in many other US allies). India serves its purpose as a bullwark to the main focus of AirSeaBattle..i.e China.. To change the balance in Pakistan or lose Indian goodwill means more pressure on the Chinese front along with losing potential economic partners. Since that equation holds true for a long time.. I seriously doubt that the US would be happy selling F-16's Free of strings...critical, wartime ..strings.

 

[Viper0011.]

The F-16's have nothing to do with Talibanizaition, they never did. Which means the wrong narrative gets sent back from CNN.
The F-16's are related with maintaining the balance with India, and congressional hearings prove that it is truly the case and nothing else.
Because at the end of the day, economics dictate US foreign policy(otherwise extremism and HR violations extends way beyond Pakistan in many other US allies). I seriously doubt that the US would be happy selling F-16's Free of strings...critical, wartime ..strings.

I kind of agree with some of your key points. Talibanization doesn't have anything to do with the F-16's....but right now, everything has to do with it. Even inside Pakistan, take a look at how many muslims get killed due to these terrorists? Forget about the west for a second and take a look inside Pakistan. So, a situation like that in a nuclear country worries everyone. Plus, I know HR violations happen in India a lot too. Kashmiris are living in a torture camp for them called their mother land!!! So I know the bias there. But the bigger trade partnership has countries ignore it.
SO you did highlight an interesting issue. But you aren't addressing the fix of this issue but you do know what it is. The line where you said, that the foreign policy is directed based on economics...absolutely. So, the fix to this situation is fixing Pakistani economy. The US companies may be reluctant to sell you guys stuff under the FMS.....but try saying no to hard cash............if Pakistanis work on their economy and it can easily get into top 20 largest economies due to 200 million strong population......no one would say no to hard cash. As a reputable, strong country without the terrorism drama is asking for weapons and they will come on cash buyer's term. End of the story. France is famous for doing this. You can ask them to put their mother in the cockpit and if they think there is enough cash for it, they'll do it. Wrong example but it sets the stage on how business is done. Beggars can"t be choosers. But cash and trade means you get to chose how you like it. Not what I can easily sell....

 

[MastanKhan]

My local congressman doesn't decide who gets the F-16's. The foreign policy does. For once, I agree with Storm Force. LEARN how to communicate with the Americans in the language that they understand and it is built upon mutual trust and through establishing a good relationship.

You guys never had democracy prevail in your country. Result of that was that every dictator in power came to Washington and complained about its own people turning bad and how they would become a threat to others. That's how they got the aid, weapons, etc.

Now you guys do have a democratically elected government. What that means is that they should come to Washington and show the will to work as a partner with the Americans (and with the world). Once the West starts to see the intensity and the talibanization going away from the Pakistani society, I can't see why the F-16's which are really yesterday's technology for the US will be a problem.

Sir,

The know-it-all arrogant pakistani will never learn how to manipulate the u s to its advantage---even when it was presented everything on a silver platter---it acted to its best to ruin the advantage / the handicap that it was being given.

 

[razgriz19]

More F-16s would be good. We already operate them, so it wouldn't really hurt to increase the numbers.
The only problem would be that PAF might want to spend that money to get 3 times as much JF-17s than the F-16.

 

[Gentelman]

Wrong. PAF wants US weapons. It is the strings they don't want.

means PAF don't want US weapons with strings and US isn't going to do anything to make us comfortable in near future and even without strings US always use traking devises they always use dirty tricks to gather intellegence like from weaponary,medical survey and such things……

More F-16s would be good. We already operate them, so it wouldn't really hurt to increase the numbers.
The only problem would be that PAF might want to spend that money to get 3 times as much JF-17s than the F-16.

PAF want JFT as backbone while for higher tech boom F-16 or any other chineese plance will be slected soo JFT has nothing to do withF-16……
J-10 or F-16 are likely to be slected but with no string attached……

 

[Storm Force]

To ORANGZEIB...

Skip the J-10 all together. Acquire four squadrons of J-11's with J-16's avionics (as they are much more advanced). Later, bite the bullet one time and get the J-31X stealth planes a few squadrons. That makes it a very complete and strong air force. It also gives them air superiority over their own skies in a very big way

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...n-f-16-discussions-2-a-441.html#ixzz2WkBpm83i

You are heading towards FANTASY LAND Yet again with J16 & J31 these are not possible for the IMMEDIATE THREAT... or near future THREAT.

F16 is possible TODAY but ONLY if you REWIN the TRUST and confidence of THE USA ..

F16 is possible as A STABLE trusted ALLY the USA will pay for THE F16 with GRANT AID

J16 & J31 are neither here nor available & require billions $$$ which PAF will not have...