Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[SQ8]

Their are quite a few RAF pilots in that team including the team leader.

A human being is an amazing thing n can do and achieve wt ever it sets it's mind to or at the very least die trying.
The saudis like the rest of the khaleejis have been held hostage by the insecurities of their rulers and the westerners who have bread them. like Norman Schwarzkopf said in his book that the " French and the Russians only taught the iraqis to take off and land and nothing in between making our job easier ".
Make no mistake in a shooting war these khaleejis will always come out second best.

Is it also that we have been held hostage by our own insecurities and the need to prove that we are god’s gift to earth?
Why do our pilots also have CFITs if we are really that great? Or have F-16s go down because technicians used a Mirage part?
Or swindle money?

We kept assuming that 1 Pakistani equals 10 Indian until they caught 90000 of us in shame..

These are flawed ideals of generalizations based upon hearsay instead of looking at the ground realities; and unless you know the RSAF inside out or even know the Saudi kid of today - such statements are arrogant at best and racist at worst.

 

[CIA Mole]

is jf17 just poor man's F16?

 

[Engima Chaudhry]

is jf17 just poor man's F16?

Nope, it's a 'wiser man's' F 16.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Is it also that we have been held hostage by our own insecurities and the need to prove that we are god’s gift to earth?
Why do our pilots also have CFITs if we are really that great? Or have F-16s go down because technicians used a Mirage part?
Or swindle money?

We kept assuming that 1 Pakistani equals 10 Indian until they caught 90000 of us in shame..

These are flawed ideals of generalizations based upon hearsay instead of looking at the ground realities; and unless you know the RSAF inside out or even know the Saudi kid of today - such statements are arrogant at best and racist at worst.

The khaleeji with all the wealth at their disposal could have done so much for them selves and even for the rest of the Muslims, if they had choosen. They could have been the real power in the region and the middleast. But they did nothing n now that party is comming to an end. That friend is an example of human will power.

I don't know if we r God's gift to the earth or not but ever time the khaleejis a$s has been on fire they always ran to Pakistan for help. So maybe we r God's gift for the khaleejis.
certainly we Pakistanis have our problems and our faults but not as extensive as our khaleeji brothers.

Keeping India at bay which is 7 times bigger than Pakistan certainly tells us that 1 Pakistan is equal to at least 7 indians.

Again the Saudi team is trained, led and manned by ex red arrow RAF pilots with a "quite" a few Saudi pilots in the mix.

Ps: the "quite" i put their satisfy ur ego.

 

[Blacklight]

Their are quite a few RAF pilots in that team including the team leader.

A human being is an amazing thing n can do and achieve wt ever it sets it's mind to or at the very least die trying.
The saudis like the rest of the khaleejis have been held hostage by the insecurities of their rulers and the westerners who have bread them. like Norman Schwarzkopf said in his book that the " French and the Russians only taught the iraqis to take off and land and nothing in between making our job easier ".
Make no mistake in a shooting war these khaleejis will always come out second best.

Norman Schwarzkopf was talking about the Iraqis of Saddam Era, but you twist it nicely.

 

[Signalian]

If we had the "grit" mentality in the early 1990s, then we would've worked to equip the Mirages (F-1/III/V) with BVR and SOW much earlier (not wait on the US for F-16s). Imagine having 100-150 BVR and SOW-equipped fighters by Kargil.

F-16 set the milestone and criteria for PAF, an example being JF-17.

 

[Yasser76]

The khaleeji with all the wealth at their disposal could have done so much for them selves and even for the rest of the Muslims, if they had choosen. They could have been the real power in the region and the middleast. But they did nothing n now that party is comming to an end. That friend is an example of human will power.

I don't know if we r God's gift to the earth or not but ever time the khaleejis a$s has been on fire they always ran to Pakistan for help. So maybe we r God's gift for the khaleejis.
certainly we Pakistanis have our problems and our faults but not as extensive as our khaleeji brothers.

Keeping India at bay which is 7 times bigger than Pakistan certainly tells us that 1 Pakistan is equal to at least 7 indians.

Again the Saudi team is trained, led and manned by ex red arrow RAF pilots with a "quite" a few Saudi pilots in the mix.

Ps: the "quite" i put their satisfy ur ego.

Strange looking Englishmen....

 

[Blacklight]

Strange looking Englishmen....

View attachment 671877

There was an arab member, that had this infatuation with "Arabization", I hope he doesn't see this pic, or he will claim it as evidence, of goras being arabized

 

[Zulfiqar]

But *cough* *cough* as Pakistanis it is part of our national “sunnat” that the Saudis cant do the proverbial “istanjah” without us...

Let alone them have 10-1 kills against us in mock dogfights in one exercise.

On the yemeni front, their airforce has seen a lot of target practice against drones/missiles e.t.c.

They have the $ to fire all the Aims/AMRAAMs. We can simulate all we want but those real world lessons from firing real weapons do help in the peace time training which won't be possible for us (obviously not counting LGB/A2G training which we have plenty of due to WOT).

 

[SQ8]

The khaleeji with all the wealth at their disposal could have done so much for them selves and even for the rest of the Muslims, if they had choosen. They could have been the real power in the region and the middleast. But they did nothing n now that party is comming to an end. That friend is an example of human will power.

I don't know if we r God's gift to the earth or not but ever time the khaleejis a$s has been on fire they always ran to Pakistan for help. So maybe we r God's gift for the khaleejis.
certainly we Pakistanis have our problems and our faults but not as extensive as our khaleeji brothers.

Keeping India at bay which is 7 times bigger than Pakistan certainly tells us that 1 Pakistan is equal to at least 7 indians.

Again the Saudi team is trained, led and manned by ex red arrow RAF pilots with a "quite" a few Saudi pilots in the mix.

Ps: the "quite" i put their satisfy ur ego.

Lets agree to disagree and leave it to time on proving who is right.

 

[MIRauf]

On the yemeni front, their airforce has seen a lot of target practice against drones/missiles e.t.c.

They have the $ to fire all the Aims/AMRAAMs. We can simulate all we want but those real world lessons from firing real weapons do help in the peace time training which won't be possible for us (obviously not counting LGB/A2G training which we have plenty of due to WOT).

So was Iraqi Air-force lessons learned during Iran-Iraq war, those lessons didn't help them much during 1st Gulf War. I lived in Kuwait during Iran-Iraq war, seen enough videos of Iraqi propaganda whenever we picked up Iraqi TV Channel out of Basra. We use to get amazed as to how a over-weight pot belly could climb into TU-22s, I guess that use to be the highlight of the videos.

Does one thinks that Iraqi Air-force is any better under NATO / USAF training ?

 

[Zulfiqar]

So was Iraqi Air-force lessons learned during Iran-Iraq war, those lessons didn't help them much during 1st Gulf War. I lived in Kuwait during Iran-Iraq war, seen enough videos of Iraqi propaganda whenever we picked up Iraqi TV Channel out of Basra. We use to get amazed as to how a over-weight pot belly could climb into TU-22s, I guess that use to be the highlight of the videos.

Does one thinks that Iraqi Air-force is any better under NATO / USAF training ?

No one is comparing a middle eastern airforce to USAF/NATO airforces.

W.r.t KSA I knew a PA aviation officer who also had a disgust for his saudi counterparts owing to their acts while both were training in US. Have heard similar opinions from my father w.r.t omanis.

However, present generation is evolving. Need a hint, go through the linkedin listing w.r.t the types of jobs available in KSA nowadays and compare it with ours (Not even counting the number of jobs per capita which are more there). Their economy, education, industrial knowledge and tech base is evolving at a much better rate than ours (in terms of the required skills). This also has an impact on the intake of the human resource into the airforce.

Lastly regardless of arab mindset, their is a difference in doctrine of KSA relative to what Iraqis followed. Please do not compare the airforce of 90s with that of today. They have had countless redflag type trainings since then and are relatively better compared to their peers.

Obviously we can't compare them to USAF or IDAF and neither would KSA be fighting them but discounting them all together isn't objective analysis.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Strange looking Englishmen....

View attachment 671877

"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip".

N in simple urdu:

"Hati ka dant khanay kay our
Our dikhany kay our".

 

[MIRauf]

No one is comparing a middle eastern airforce to USAF/NATO airforces.

W.r.t KSA I knew a PA aviation officer who also had a disgust for his saudi counterparts owing to their acts while both were training in US. Have heard similar opinions from my father w.r.t omanis.

However, present generation is evolving. Need a hint, go through the linkedin listing w.r.t the types of jobs available in KSA nowadays and compare it with ours (Not even counting the number of jobs per capita which are more there). Their economy, education, industrial knowledge and tech base is evolving at a much better rate than ours (in terms of the required skills). This also has an impact on the intake of the human resource into the airforce.

Lastly regardless of arab mindset, their is a difference in doctrine of KSA relative to what Iraqis followed. Please do not compare the airforce of 90s with that of today. They have had countless redflag type trainings since then and are relatively better compared to their peers.

Obviously we can't compare them to USAF or IDAF and neither would KSA be fighting them but discounting them all together isn't objective analysis.

I don't have disgust or hold any grudge against any of the M.E countries, secondly I am not senile enough to compare USAF to any or combined M.E Airforces, just too lopsided comparison in favor of the USAF. I am just pointing out what we saw during Iran-Iraq war, I will take your word that the things have changed for better.

On other note, to the member that stated the 10-1 or so thrashing PAF received, when was it and what type of aircraft involved along with DACT rules ? BVR / wvr ?

Thank you.

 

[Yasser76]

"There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip".

N in simple urdu:

"Hati ka dant khanay kay our
Our dikhany kay our".

In simple English, maybe worth posting a shred of evidence to back up a claim, than maybe the wheel out the proverbs....