Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Zulfiqar]

Son in law of pagol late Asad Munir??

Yes.

 

[The Eagle]

Hey guys,
PAF HQ has two trophies of broken pieces of R-77 missiles fired at F-16 and both failed during "operation Swift Retrot" by PAF. Can someone please post clear photos of these broken pieces of R-77.
Photo is here.
https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2019/09/04/russian-missile-dont-work-says-indian-air-force/

First of all, those were never fired instead found intact but burnt with MiG-21 at crash site. For details and clearer pictures, please visit....

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indi...of-mig-21-bison-payload.609269/#post-11298520

 

[Signalian]

Is it possible that in future PAF may consider integrating Aselsan AESA radar which is created for TUAF F-16s? If yes then will US allow it?
@Quwa @araz @Tipu7

PAF can play around with JF-17, not F-16.

 

[araz]

Hey guys,
PAF HQ has two trophies of broken pieces of R-77 missiles fired at F-16 and both failed during "operation Swift Retrot" by PAF. Can someone please post clear photos of these broken pieces of R-77.
Photo is here.
https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2019/09/04/russian-missile-dont-work-says-indian-air-force/

You have taken picture from bharat Rat shit forum. That is not from Pakistani fora. I think you are mistaken as spent missiles do not get discovered unless they are lodged in something. The whole news is wrong as No Indian missile was fired.
A

 

[mingle]

Yes.

It's jiyala family and also psycho too

 

[The Eagle]

Please avoid off-topic posts and derailing thread.

Regards,

 

[air marshal]

https://falcons.pk/photo/Lockheed-Martin-F-16D-Fighting-Falcon/2927

 

[Windjammer]

 

[Akh1112]

One has to see the cost vs benefits. Cost of AESA would be anywhere between 7.5 to 12 million $ . Multiply that with 75 and you get a huge number. The second question is whether it is absolutely necessary. Apg68V9 is a very good radar for the indoPak arena and we dont have money growing on trees. I think block 52s should have the AESA Plus the new ones plus any block 32/42s which we acquire. That should be good enough. The 52s radar could go into the ocu s acquired from Jordan.
A
A

Eh, this is true to an extent, however, the more accurate figure is around $12-20m per aircraft per Block-72 Upgrade. Sure, you gotta look at cost v benefit, however, increasing the potency of the aircraft in itself could potentially reduce cost in the sense of not losing a $60m asset. Yes, its an expensive upgrade, however, is it worth it? One could argue yes. Its a cost effective counter to the Rafale, especially since some industry experts question the potency of the Meteor and liken it to the 120D

 

[RAMPAGE]

Is it possible that in future PAF may consider integrating Aselsan AESA radar which is created for TUAF F-16s? If yes then will US allow it?
@Quwa @araz @Tipu7

Why not simply get the American upgrade?

 

[nomi007]

Why not simply get the American upgrade?

No money.

 

[araz]

Eh, this is true to an extent, however, the more accurate figure is around $12-20m per aircraft per Block-72 Upgrade. Sure, you gotta look at cost v benefit, however, increasing the potency of the aircraft in itself could potentially reduce cost in the sense of not losing a $60m asset. Yes, its an expensive upgrade, however, is it worth it? One could argue yes. Its a cost effective counter to the Rafale, especially since some industry experts question the potency of the Meteor and liken it to the 120D

Thank you. Are you quoting 12 to 20 million just for AESA radar or the whole V upgrade? Please advise

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Eh, this is true to an extent, however, the more accurate figure is around $12-20m per aircraft per Block-72 Upgrade. Sure, you gotta look at cost v benefit, however, increasing the potency of the aircraft in itself could potentially reduce cost in the sense of not losing a $60m asset. Yes, its an expensive upgrade, however, is it worth it? One could argue yes. Its a cost effective counter to the Rafale, especially since some industry experts question the potency of the Meteor and liken it to the 120D

IIRC the cost (quoted publicly) of upgrading F-16s to F-16V is around $35 m per aircraft. It's definitely on the high-side, but the outcome is a solid 4.5-gen fighter. For the PAF, the biggest constraint is the age of its A/B. I'm not too sure if they'd last long enough to justify the upgrade. There's no known SLEP for A/Bs past FALCON UP/STAR.

If we had the funding, I'd rather we take a different approach than upgrading all of our old F-16s.

Basically, upgrade the 18 Block-52+ to F-16V -- i.e., $630 m US.

Add 36 new-build Block-72 -- i.e., $4.5 b US.

You will now have 54 solid 4.5-gen fighters for around half the price India agreed to pay for 36 Rafale.

Next up, work on a fleet-wide AESA radar upgrade for the Block-I, Block-II and JF-17B. Certainly, I think adding an AESA radar (LKF601E or KLJ-7A) should be doable on the Block-II and JF-17B, at least. Finally, I'd add another 62 JF-17 Block-III (or Block-IV) so that we can total around 200 JF-17s equipped with AESA radars.

We can have 254 fighters equipped with AESA radars, which is an ample force for deterring India. However, we will also have 57-odd MLU/ADFs and 50 Block-Is with BVR and TDL as an auxiliary, plus dozens of Mirages for strike. But I'd offload some of the strike load (via Ra'ad 2, Raptor III, etc) to the JF-17s.

 

[The Raven]

IIRC the cost (quoted publicly) of upgrading F-16s to F-16V is around $35 m per aircraft. It's definitely on the high-side, but the outcome is a solid 4.5-gen fighter. For the PAF, the biggest constraint is the age of its A/B. I'm not too sure if they'd last long enough to justify the upgrade. There's no known SLEP for A/Bs past FALCON UP/STAR.

If we had the funding, I'd rather we take a different approach than upgrading all of our old F-16s.

Basically, upgrade the 18 Block-52+ to F-16V -- i.e., $630 m US.

Add 36 new-build Block-72 -- i.e., $4.5 b US.

You will now have 54 solid 4.5-gen fighters for around half the price India agreed to pay for 36 Rafale.

Next up, work on a fleet-wide AESA radar upgrade for the Block-I, Block-II and JF-17B. Certainly, I think adding an AESA radar (LKF601E or KLJ-7A) should be doable on the Block-II and JF-17B, at least. Finally, I'd add another 62 JF-17 Block-III (or Block-IV) so that we can total around 200 JF-17s equipped with AESA radars.

We can have 254 fighters equipped with AESA radars, which is an ample force for deterring India. However, we will also have 57-odd MLU/ADFs and 50 Block-Is with BVR and TDL as an auxiliary, plus dozens of Mirages for strike. But I'd offload some of the strike load (via Ra'ad 2, Raptor III, etc) to the JF-17s.

Block I should be capable of an AESA given that PT-04 has been used as a test bed for the AESA. The Service Life Extension Programme could keep our early block Vipers going for some time if the US programme is anything to go by.

https://www.afmc.af.mil/News/Articl...-a-great-deal-for-department-of-defense-taxp/

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Block I should be capable of an AESA given that PT-04 has been used as a test bed for the AESA. The Service Life Extension Programme could keep our early block Vipers going for some time if the US programme is anything to go by.

https://www.afmc.af.mil/News/Articl...-a-great-deal-for-department-of-defense-taxp/

The USAF SLEP is for C/Ds.