Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Trango Towers]

Wait then

Unless there is

Why not you tell them how business works??


PAF will get jetts now we also know negotiations with other countries too other than China and US could be Gripen?? Or EF?? because all are desperate after COVID shock.

It seems with you business work in the following way. Pakistan gives America everything from transit routes to laying down the lives of its troops. Get called a terror state. Humiliated in a drama of OBL and then the CSF that are rightfully ours not het paid. Pakistan then get told its india that's the preferred partner in the region. Then zulus impounded. T129 engines blocked and told we have been given billions in aid when we lost 100s of billions in trade.
Now you say how business works....well it work by not giving you anything. What have you got to show for the above other than humiliation. And yet you want more. I would rather die of shame than keep begging. Project azm inshallah.

I hope you have learnt how not to do business from the above

 

[mingle]

It seems with you business work in the following way. Pakistan gives America everything from transit routes to laying down the lives of its troops. Get called a terror state. Humiliated in a drama of OBL and then the CSF that are rightfully ours not het paid. Pakistan then get told its india that's the preferred partner in the region. Then zulus impounded. T129 engines blocked and told we have been given billions in aid when we lost 100s of billions in trade.
Now you say how business works....well it work by not giving you anything. What have you got to show for the above other than humiliation. And yet you want more. I would rather die of shame than keep begging. Project azm inshallah.

I hope you have learnt how not to do business from the above

I asked you what you suggest the way? These are same old arguments what you talking about?
America is big country we are not North Korea they still the biggest trading partner not China?
Project Azm is j31 derivative pak can buy straight from China nothing new here.

 

[mshan44]

 

[mingle]

View attachment 631007

These babies will come Pak very soon what sleek plane US design amazing.

 

[araz]

Ego sect. They worship their egos, can never eat the humble pie.

Forget what PAF has to say, even members here who have been credible in the past, are NOW accepting what he said months ago.

It is not his fault that people are clueless, and let their egos blind them. In any case, time will prove someone right.


This has to be the most childish thing you could have said, given our relationship with the US.

Can we please stop this off topic debate and keep to the topic at hand. @Khafee is our brother and he broke a news probably a bit too early. As it happens somewhere between his breaking news and political maneouverings things got delayed. He got a bit mauled because he made it look like it was happening like yesterday. Whether it materializes or not is still up for debate. However there is a forum with an on going debate and he is not the topic at hand. So can we all concentrate on the topic and not on his credibility. Only time will prove him right or wrong. If you look at all the exclusives he has taken out on his own forum, to date none of them has proven right although there is talk ongoing. For instance he has talked of C130s landing in Pak within 2 months. He has talked of SU35 for PAF and now the J15 with folding wings.
I say give things time and in 6 month's time find out whether the brother was right or not.
Between talks and contract to delivery there are a thousand steps and any mishap can break a done deal. The art is to make a revelation when the real is done.
For instance a Friend of mine told me PAF was negotiationg for 12 /14 F16s. This was 2010. We eventually heard of 8F16s in 2015/16 and even that deal got scuppered.
It does not mean that the friend was right or wrong. It just means that things in aviation can change.
So let us leave this topic for the moment and concentrate on what is relevant.
A

 

[Trango Towers]

I asked you what you suggest the way? These are same old arguments what you talking about?
America is big country we are not North Korea they still the biggest trading partner not China?
Project Azm is j31 derivative pak can buy straight from China nothing new here.

Oh dear....you dod not ask to suggest the way forward. J31 is not project azm derivative. Where did you get that from? More rumours?
However way forward is home made stuff with potential international collaboration where possible.

 

[raazh]

Are not coming. Accept the fact. We have been used because our rulers had no idea how to force the payments

At this moment .. USA is the sole super power; yes we cannot force those payments .. dont think we have a choice here or earlier .. if they arrive good, if not then life still goes on .. nobody except u is loosing sleep here ..

 

[Trango Towers]

At this moment .. USA is the sole super power; yes we cannot force those payments .. dont think we have a choice here or earlier .. if they arrive good, if not then life still goes on .. nobody except u is loosing sleep here ..

Exactly.... we should move on and if we get the payments all good but if not then any future requirement by usa and there will be in afghanistan must have this payment as an advance. I lived and studied and did my business all my life in the west. They respect strength even in negotiations. Pak psyche is not like that sadly

 

[raazh]

Exactly.... we should move on and if we get the payments all good but if not then any future requirement by usa and there will be in afghanistan must have this payment as an advance. I lived and studied and did my business all my life in the west. They respect strength even in negotiations. Pak psyche is not like that sadly

Brother we, unfortunately are in no position to dictate terms of any deal vis a vis USA. I am also living abroad currently and have experience of working in Pakistani defence sector as well. Forget US origin equipment, even for other nato origin equipment too we have to go through extra ordinary obstacles.

 

[Mentee]

Paf has said jf17 block 3 is much more capable than block 52 but the f16 beggars or fanboys still want then because gora shaibs toys are better

Bro any equipment we procure from the US of a is a token of loyalty and in the present circumstances of neutrality - - - - - - -.




It has its own shine and thunder for the end user only if completely allowed to explore all its nuts and bolts. However the versions we have been getting are handicapped to say the least but it's a potent weapon for air defence purpose . Back in the early 2000 an air superiorty fighter was badly needed to bridge the gap between us and india and to get a practical know how about the merits of a truly modern war machine for accelerating the catch up for our strategic allies - - - - - - - - - - not so much now.




One can argue that such approach could also be applied to up the ante even now but then keeping in view the pace with which that strategic ally is covering miles and where it stands now makes it pretty absurd to waste csf on buying a squadron or two of the block whatever when pak pilots have trained themselves on the much advanced platforms like f15's and Raphaels . That fund could be used to purchase Zulus and other not so always kept under the radar goodies while the extra amount needed to cover the viper purchase could very well be directed to get our hands on the j series and thunder block 3.

 

[Trango Towers]

Brother we, unfortunately are in no position to dictate terms of any deal vis a vis USA. I am also living abroad currently and have experience of working in Pakistani defence sector as well. Forget US origin equipment, even for other nato origin equipment too we have to go through extra ordinary obstacles.

Ofcourse....no matter what we are muslim. The turks experimented. Not allowed in EU and Israel's friendship was to weaken turkey. Inshallah one day
Never lose hope. Allah will make us independent of everyone

 

[TheTallGuy]

Sorry Guys! As much i love to see more F-16s but real/correct/factual status is "Train has left" we will retire these F-16s when there life is over...no new F-16s or used ...we have 75 and will retire them after taking peacetime & wartime attrition.

PAF has moved on!

 

[Blacklight]

Can we please stop this off topic debate and keep to the topic at hand. @Khafee is our brother and he broke a news probably a bit too early. As it happens somewhere between his breaking news and political maneouverings things got delayed. He got a bit mauled because he made it look like it was happening like yesterday. Whether it materializes or not is still up for debate. However there is a forum with an on going debate and he is not the topic at hand. So can we all concentrate on the topic and not on his credibility. Only time will prove him right or wrong. If you look at all the exclusives he has taken out on his own forum, to date none of them has proven right although there is talk ongoing. For instance he has talked of C130s landing in Pak within 2 months. He has talked of SU35 for PAF and now the J15 with folding wings.
I say give things time and in 6 month's time find out whether the brother was right or not.
Between talks and contract to delivery there are a thousand steps and any mishap can break a done deal. The art is to make a revelation when the real is done.
For instance a Friend of mine told me PAF was negotiationg for 12 /14 F16s. This was 2010. We eventually heard of 8F16s in 2015/16 and even that deal got scuppered.
It does not mean that the friend was right or wrong. It just means that things in aviation can change.
So let us leave this topic for the moment and concentrate on what is relevant.
A

Very well said!!

 

[Maxpane]

Very well said!!

bhai any update on j 15 and f 16 from khafee sir?

 

[ali_raza]

Sorry Guys! As much i love to see more F-16s but real/correct/factual status is "Train has left" we will retire these F-16s when there life is over...no new F-16s or used ...we have 75 and will retire them after taking peacetime & wartime attrition.

PAF has moved on!

@Blacklight