Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Myth_buster_1]

i think we should forget anymoe F-16s from US. they are leaving from afghanistan. thier job is done there so they dont need pak anymore. so no more military equipment rather be ready for some sanctions after a couple of years once their exit from afghanistan is completed.

sanctions is already in place sine trump came in power.

 

[StormBreaker]

i think we should forget anymoe F-16s from US. they are leaving from afghanistan. thier job is done there so they dont need pak anymore. so no more military equipment rather be ready for some sanctions after a couple of years once their exit from afghanistan is completed.

This very likely consider the track record of Pak-US relations.

sanctions is already in place sine trump came in power.

Dont you guys get fed up of again and again discussing all this over ? And with the “I think” ? Yea me too sometimes but no use man... It gets depressive overtime, talks and talks, nothing new comes...

 

[litman]

Dont you guys get fed up of again and again discussing all this over ? And with the “I think” ? Yea me too sometimes but no use man... It gets depressive overtime, talks and talks, nothing new comes...

we are discussing the most likely possibility and if that happens it will be a cause of concern for PAF. i dont know how much paf is dependent on US for keeping their F-16 fleet well maintained but i can speculate that they are very much dependent .will we be going back to the era of 90s regarding our F-16 fleet or PAF has sufficient reserves of spares to keep its fleet battle worthy? if the worst happens like in the 90s then PAF will become only a JF 17 air force and we will keep few specialized squadrons of mirages as well IMO. may be J 10 will be inducted as a stop gap measure till the time some fifth gen jet becomes operational.

 

[Esgalduin]

Why do you think F-35 wont excel in a dogfight ?

The age of the dogfight is long gone. BVR combat has replaced the close-in, intense dogfighting so beloved of aviation nerds the world over. The F35 is an advanced multirole fighter that admittedly did lose a mock dogfight to a F16 during testing but dogfighting is not what the F35 is designed for. It is meant to act as a stealth fighter capable of tracking and engaging enemy fighters before they are even aware of the F35's presence. The F35 was also designed to act as a mini-AWACS of sorts, able to fly alongside and deploy drones, with central command being delegated to the F35 pilot. The f35 is touted to be a game-changer in terms of battlefield awareness, painting a picture of the battlefield conditions for dedicated air superiority and strike fighters. In other words, the F35 is meant to service a new type of aerial warfare, one that features network vs network rather than just jet vs jet.

 

[Pandora]

FFS after getting slapped again and again by Americans we are still dreaming about F16, F15 and some lunatics dream about F35 as well.

Just to give some perspective they didnt even give us decades old Alamgir class frigates or some swift class patrol boat so what makes you think that anything new might be on offer. Only reason PAF will consider F16 is to maintain a fleet until we are ready for fifth gen jets down the line. We should settle with the fact that we will be driving F16s like beaten horses just like we did with Mirages. We should be more realistic and shouldn't let our imagination run too wild.

Pakistan can neither afford nor wish for anything other than F16. Even if it gets cleared US will give us nothing more than Blk 52.

 

[StormBreaker]

FFS after getting slapped again and again by Americans we are still dreaming about F16, F15 and some lunatics dream about F35 as well.

Just to give some perspective they didnt even give us decades old Alamgir class frigates or some swift class patrol boat so what makes you think that anything new might be on offer. Only reason PAF will consider F16 is to maintain a fleet until we are ready for fifth gen jets down the line. We should settle with the fact that we will be driving F16s like beaten horses just like we did with Mirages. We should be more realistic and shouldn't let our imagination run too wild.

Pakistan can neither afford nor wish for anything other than F16. Even if it gets cleared US will give us nothing more than Blk 52.

Block 3 being superior to Block 60 or equivalent will be the placard to acquire further F-16s since the F-16s will no longer give us technical edge which we already will achieve through Block 3, so more F-16s are a possibility.

No point in discussing this further until any action. I am getting “Bezaar” on this all...

 

[denel]

Block 3 being superior to Block 60 or equivalent will be the placard to acquire further F-16s since the F-16s will no longer give us technical edge which we already will achieve through Block 3, so more F-16s are a possibility.

No point in discussing this further until any action. I am getting “Bezaar” on this all...

Correct... be patient, block 4 should nullify anything additional. There will be a blk4 and blk 5. Blk 3 will highlight a major leap forward in capability but blk4 would more likely focus on more integration, payload and engine

 

[Nomad40]

Critics think small wing like F104 a big fat turkey

not true I have seen it perform on 3 occasions NOT an F-22 but I think it has better energy retention than the F-16 and can do a 180 on a dime it is very maneuverable it is fat for a reason.

The age of the dogfight is long gone. BVR combat has replaced the close-in, intense dogfighting so beloved of aviation nerds the world over. The F35 is an advanced multirole fighter that admittedly did lose a mock dogfight to a F16 during testing but dogfighting is not what the F35 is designed for. It is meant to act as a stealth fighter capable of tracking and engaging enemy fighters before they are even aware of the F35's presence. The F35 was also designed to act as a mini-AWACS of sorts, able to fly alongside and deploy drones, with central command being delegated to the F35 pilot. The f35 is touted to be a game-changer in terms of battlefield awareness, painting a picture of the battlefield conditions for dedicated air superiority and strike fighters. In other words, the F35 is meant to service a new type of aerial warfare, one that features network vs network rather than just jet vs jet.

mhmm I know and A LOT MORE but it flies like a SIXTEEN

 

[Windjammer]

Window With a killer View.

 

[Kabotar]

In your assessment what are the things Blk4 solid improved upon?

Correct... be patient, block 4 should nullify anything additional. There will be a blk4 and blk 5. Blk 3 will highlight a major leap forward in capability but blk4 would more likely focus on more integration, payload and engine

 

[FuturePAF]

The age of the dogfight is long gone. BVR combat has replaced the close-in, intense dogfighting so beloved of aviation nerds the world over. The F35 is an advanced multirole fighter that admittedly did lose a mock dogfight to a F16 during testing but dogfighting is not what the F35 is designed for. It is meant to act as a stealth fighter capable of tracking and engaging enemy fighters before they are even aware of the F35's presence. The F35 was also designed to act as a mini-AWACS of sorts, able to fly alongside and deploy drones, with central command being delegated to the F35 pilot. The f35 is touted to be a game-changer in terms of battlefield awareness, painting a picture of the battlefield conditions for dedicated air superiority and strike fighters. In other words, the F35 is meant to service a new type of aerial warfare, one that features network vs network rather than just jet vs jet.

it’s not about F-16 Block 70/F-15EX/F-18E/F vs F-35. It’s those advanced variants of 4th gen platforms fusing data and guiding the rest of the Air Force against an Indian Air Force that is 4th and 3rd generation fighters.

This why the PAF needs 2-3 Squadrons of these advanced variant 4th gen fighters to deal with the current IAF threat and still keep our own 5th gen Project AZM going.

The 2-3 squadrons would be a stop gap for the next 15 years. With India getting the S-400 they will probably not get the F-35 and will have to wait for a mature European or Russian or indigenous design to emerge which will probably be in 15 years or so.

The 36-50 stop gap fighters should be enough with Block III JF-17 and upgraded F-16s to keep the Indian at bay.

If PAF is not allowed or cant afford to buy more F-16s or get F-15/F-18 then it will continue on its original plan to double down on the JF-17 and Project AZM. Buying American products is based on the political winds and the CSF funds. IMHO, PAF is not expecting it but just keeping its eyes and ears open, just in case.

 

[StormBreaker]

it’s not about F-16 Block 70/F-15EX/F-18E/F vs F-35. It’s those advanced variants of 4th gen platforms fusing data and guiding the rest of the Air Force against an Indian Air Force that is 4th and 3rd generation fighters.

This why the PAF needs 2-3 Squadrons of these advanced variant 4th gen fighters to deal with the current IAF threat and still keep our own 5th gen Project AZM going.

The 2-3 squadrons would be a stop gap for the next 15 years. With India getting the S-400 they will probably not get the F-35 and will have to wait for a mature European or Russian or indigenous design to emerge which will probably be in 15 years or so.

The 36-50 stop gap fighters should be enough with Block III JF-17 and upgraded F-16s to keep the Indian at bay.

If PAF is not allowed or cant afford to buy more F-16s or get F-15/F-18 then it will continue on its original plan to double down on the JF-17 and Project AZM. Buying American products is based on the political winds and the CSF funds. IMHO, PAF is not expecting it but just keeping its eyes and ears open, just in case.

You are totally wrong in all this.
IAf Is 3rd and 4th for the time being, by 2027-28, their Bisons won’t be even flyable, squadron strength cut, Tejas possibly inducting. IAF is no immediate threat to us, AZM is a brilliant choice of PAF to keep its superiority for atleast two more decades, stay two steps ahead of IAF.

IAF can very well get F-35, USA will try to get S-400 technical info from Turkey if Turkey and USA patch up again, USA will try to improvise F-35 to make S-400 seem to some extent, irrelevant, IAF can get improved F-35...

 

[mshan44]

 

[FuturePAF]

You are totally wrong in all this.
IAf Is 3rd and 4th for the time being, by 2027-28, their Bisons won’t be even flyable, squadron strength cut, Tejas possibly inducting. IAF is no immediate threat to us, AZM is a brilliant choice of PAF to keep its superiority for atleast two more decades, stay two steps ahead of IAF.

IAF can very well get F-35, USA will try to get S-400 technical info from Turkey if Turkey and USA patch up again, USA will try to improvise F-35 to make S-400 seem to some extent, irrelevant, IAF can get improved F-35...

I will accept that in a few years the Indian Air Force will be an all 4th generation force.

I will also accept that it is possible the Indians at some point maybe allowed to get the F-35 if the US feels the S-400 is no longer as much of a threat. But currently, even if the Indians are allowed to join the F-35 program and look to purchase the F-35 they will have to wait behind the F-35 partner countries and the US military. Then they will have to be trained and get familiar with the jet, by which time yes the F-35 will be more advanced. This would also be the time Project AZM may see it’s own production and fielding (especially if the T-FX and J-31/J-20 variants are available for export, and if Pakistan selects or develops a domestic design based on their technology)

The points about acquiring the advanced F-15/F-16/F-18 are that they should be paid for by increased trade with the US and they would only be a stop-gap force for the next 15 years, as well as a good way to acquire other modern technology to integrate into the knowledge base of Project AZM engineers.

Beyond that time, PAF should start fielding Project AZM fighters.

 

[Windjammer]

Unusual for No 11 supporting High-viz coveralls.