Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[araz]

right but no AESA even when its available

I think the current administration and Congress have increasingly become India centric. It is only our own fault. If we had utilized our influence to win trade and develop our economy then the US would havew seen money in the pakistani coffers and be interested. However, no one wants to support an economically deprived nation indefinitely especially since the national interests of the US are inclined towards India in its intention to curtail China. So till we work for ourselves we will not have any sympathisers.
A

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

PAF F-16D Block-52 carrying DB-110 POD

 

[S.U.R.B.]

It'll be lame to consider that the air force do not have a plan B to address their needs in case the F-16s are denied.Of course there is one.But is it cost effective?
All the other options to procure another aircraft before a 5th Gen. platform to me looks expensive both as far as the buying and maintaining it is concerned.Or the air force can stick to the JFT (as they are) to make it a match or better compared to the 16's that are planned to be inducted.

To date it does not look good and it seems that they have backed down on their commitment.It has happened before as well.But that is how the politics is played.
"Back in March 2015, the U.S. House Committee on Foreign Affairs froze $150 million in foreign military financing and put a hold on the delivery of a number of used U.S. Navy cutter vessels since they were not deemed essential in fighting militants in Pakistan."

Now does those F-16s if they arrive, pack a punch and are a good purchase or not?
To someone who looks like insistent on saying that , it's just 8 and 8 F-16's is like "Aount ke mounh mein Zera"

This is not a Hadees or a word from the Holy script that only a squadron strength of ACs will make a statement.There is something called strike packages .When you have a squadron, a part it may get to become a strike package and be effective.All of it depends upon the target that you have in mind.When you have half a squadron you can have half a squadron at your disposal to deal with the threat or neutralize the designated targets across the border.8 is decent number when we talk about a strike package.The largest was with 56 F-16s so far that was used by the USAF ( @gambit , i hope i'm correct.) , which made it the largest F-16 air strike in the history.It was known as Package Q which was used against Iraq 's nuclear research facilities on the outskirts of the capital that was considered a very well guarded zone.

As i have said before as well, the addition of new or upgraded version of an old platform that you operate already is always a welcome addition.

 

[MastanKhan]

It'll be lame to consider that the air force do not have a plan B to address their needs in case the F-16s are denied.Of course there is one.But is it cost effective?
All the other options to procure another aircraft before a 5th Gen. platform to me looks expensive both as far as the buying and maintaining it is concerned.Or the air force can stick to the JFT (as they are) to make it a match or better compared to the 16's that are planned to be inducted.

To date it does not look good and it seems that they have backed down on their commitment.It has happened before as well.But that is how the politics is played.
"Back in March 2015, the U.S. House Committee on Foreign Affairs froze $150 million in foreign military financing and put a hold on the delivery of a number of used U.S. Navy cutter vessels since they were not deemed essential in fighting militants in Pakistan."

Now does those F-16s if they arrive, pack a punch and are a good purchase or not?
To someone who looks like insistent on saying that , it's just 8 and 8 F-16's is like "Aount ke mounh mein Zera"

This is not a Hadees or a word from the Holy script that only a squadron strength of ACs will make a statement.There is something called strike packages .When you have a squadron, a part it may get to become a strike package and be effective.All of it depends upon the target that you have in mind.When you have half a squadron you can have half a squadron at your disposal to deal with the threat or neutralize the designated targets across the border.8 is decent number when we talk about a strike package.The largest was with 56 F-16s so far that was used by the USAF ( @gambit , i hope i'm correct.) , which made it the largest F-16 air strike in the history.It was known as Package Q which was used against Iraq 's nuclear research facilities on the outskirts of the capital that was considered a very well guarded zone.

As i have said before as well, the addition of new or upgraded version of an old platform that you operate already is always a welcome addition.

Hi,

Technically there is nothing wrong with going for F16's---8-18 or 28. The issue is over the approach.

I am sitting here is southern california and Rohrabacher is about a 100 miles from me---and listening to his speeches---he would rather smash pakistan to kingdom come and break it apart---and there are a few other senators and congressmen to follow.

Pakistani foreign office is not upto date with the hate and dislike of pakistan in the u s congress---congress is elected every two years and these poor fobs need money for re-election---so if the funding is coming from indians---they got to talk india.

It was very simple for pakistan to approach this subject of purchase---or a lack of it---. They should have ordered 2 sqdrns of J10C's---and for the F16's they should have looked for pre-owned / refurbished.

It is understandable that a machine that paf has been operating for 30 + years---they have a special affinity for it---and it is a marvelous machine---but you can't chop your nose to spite your face.

The Air Chief supposedlly BRAGGED to the U S that they have other options---well the U S has shown them the way for other options---.

What paf must do it to put its tail between its legs and quietly pursue other venues and don't say anything to the u s on this issue---that may bring out alive some other ' long dead ' buried issues.

 

[Inception-06]

"Back in March 2015, the U.S. House Committee on Foreign Affairs froze $150 million in foreign military financing and put a hold on the delivery of a number of used U.S. Navy cutter vessels since they were not deemed essential in fighting militants in Pakistan."

@CENTCOM

A slap on the face for all US and F-16 lovers ! Good Bye Amrica @CENTCOM check this topics what the hell is going on ? The Pakistani public and PDF deserves clearness about this issue !

 

[MastanKhan]

@CENTCOM

A slap on the face for all US and F-16 lovers ! Good Bye Amrica @CENTCOM check this topics what the hell is going on ? The Pakistani public and PDF deserves clearness about this issue !

Hi,

@Ulla this is the 90's again-----the sanctions were in the air and still the paf was pursuing the F16---they gave them all the money and got sanctions and still out of sheer stupidity were waiting for the aircraft---.

How moronic and stupid does the pakistan air force needs to be---. These are the red flags that are clearly been shown----the U S does not understand how stupid pakistan can be---. They are trying to tell them indirectly that the F 16 deal has problems---which might end up in sanctions.

 

[fatman17]

Viper Driver Flying Hours
Sqn.Ldr. Abdul Ghaffar "Buzzard" Buzdar


Viper Driver

Name
Sqn.Ldr. Abdul Ghaffar "Buzzard" Buzdar
Country Pakistan
Unit 5th squadron "Falcons"Flying F-16sViper
Hours1000 F-16 Flying Hours1,000 Hours
#2788 on the 1K list
Unit 5th squadron "Falcons"

 

[nomi007]

during live firing exercise

 

[DrWatson775]

Hi,

Technically there is nothing wrong with going for F16's---8-18 or 28. The issue is over the approach.

I am sitting here is southern california and Rohrabacher is about a 100 miles from me---and listening to his speeches---he would rather smash pakistan to kingdom come and break it apart---and there are a few other senators and congressmen to follow.

Pakistani foreign office is not upto date with the hate and dislike of pakistan in the u s congress---congress is elected every two years and these poor fobs need money for re-election---so if the funding is coming from indians---they got to talk india.

It was very simple for pakistan to approach this subject of purchase---or a lack of it---. They should have ordered 2 sqdrns of J10C's---and for the F16's they should have looked for pre-owned / refurbished.

It is understandable that a machine that paf has been operating for 30 + years---they have a special affinity for it---and it is a marvelous machine---but you can't chop your nose to spite your face.

The Air Chief supposedlly BRAGGED to the U S that they have other options---well the U S has shown them the way for other options---.

What paf must do it to put its tail between its legs and quietly pursue other venues and don't say anything to the u s on this issue---that may bring out alive some other ' long dead ' buried issues.

It seems that the 2020s are going to be a sequel of the 90s. The only difference is that a plan B in terms of J10 Firebird/Vanguard. JF17s cannot replace the F16s. Neither can the J10s though.

 

[Viper0011.]

Hi,

@Ulla this is the 90's again-----the sanctions were in the air and still the paf was pursuing the F16---they gave them all the money and got sanctions and still out of sheer stupidity were waiting for the aircraft---.

How moronic and stupid does the pakistan air force needs to be---. These are the red flags that are clearly been shown----the U S does not understand how stupid pakistan can be---. They are trying to tell them indirectly that the F 16 deal has problems---which might end up in sanctions.

MK, this time, you are mistaken. This is NOT the 90's!! Here's why:

1) Since the 2008, any used of new F-16's being bought, are ALSO being bought with 5 years of spare-parts. The PAF can overhaul the F-16 internally. In the 90's, the Spares were the issue that grounded the -16!! So this time, let's say there are sanctions, the PAF will have the current planes flying like normal, plus 5 years worth of spares, which don't get used 100%. So the 5 years spares mean the jets will be operational as normal for the next 7-10 years ( I don't see sanctions btw, as long as there is a democratically elected system running Pakistan). So 7 years is MORE than enough time to get another platform and induct it, train pilots and build tactics. That is the worst case scenario.

2) The US has issued one of the largest tourist visas to Pakistani businessmen, visitors, nurses, teachers in the past two years. She is trying to build a relationship with the people of Pakistan (not just with politicians and the generals). So there is a strategy. The US leadership also knows VERY well that if they hurt Pakistan's defensive posture at this time in the history (unlike before), it may be time to say good bye to Pakistan and lose any influence. And the Pakistan is the ONLY nuke power in the Islamic world and holds a tremendous amount influence on that part of the world.

3) Not to mention the Russians and the Chinese will have open arms to embrace Pakistan (they already have) and fulfill her defense needs. The world needs Pakistan's cooperation in many directions.

4) You are reading into political rhetoric coming from the likes to Mr. Trump too much. Its the election year. Even in Pakistan, there are parties who make crazy statements about how they'll stop US-Pakistani relations and make Pakistan a "better place" by taking her away from the US

So these are the realities. All these politician will bit*ch and complain. The Pentagon will tell the senators that they need Pakistan and they need them to issue the jets or other systems, and those will be approved. 8, 16, 40 or 60 F-16's don't give Pakistan serious offensive capability. So IMO, there is no issue with regards to the balance of power compared to India. So these will be approved. 8 is not a real meaningful number. But let's say the discussions were 8 first order, 18 after and may be a third follow up order of new or used -16's. Not that about $ 8-10 billion over time. You think Lockheed would like to use that much money? AND a client with a growing economy who could pay $ 20-30 billion over the next 15-20 years? The answer is no. But the order has to be size able to make that impact (like how India does it). Which is why the 8 is the first order, and there will be approximately 24-40 jets purchased.

5) I personally think (looking at the evidence), that this may be the last top line aircraft purchase from the US. Pakistan will soon hit block III or the JFT and will also join into different projects by 2018 (as the economy grows and a few extra billion are available for JV's with Turkey, China, Russia and Korea), for a top line jet replacing the F-16's. So the remaining US aircraft will probably form a second tier in the next ten years till retired.

6) Haier has setup technology centers in Pakistan (Laptops, Tablets, now Cell phones and in the future, TV's, Consumer Electronics, Mobile Computing, etc). This will create serious local semi conductor R&D and production revolution in Pakistan. Guess what? These same technologies are used in building avionics and systems for jets. Within the next 5-7 years, you'll have a huge labor base to work on R&D and next generation of defense systems in Pakistan

So no, this isn't the 90's Pakistan. Hell, this isn't even the Pakistan world knew in 2012. Someone I know, who works with the Pakistani government, recently told me how impressed he was with Pakistani officials wanted serious growth, no matter which topic you started with them. Per him "the Pakistanis seem to have tasted the blood of economic growth and they are after it like a Lion goes after the Meat". I think this one sentence tells you how much growing Pakistan's economy has become the core focus of the current government. Whether you like them or hate them. Better and stronger economy, and $$$$ means a better and stronger defense!!

Can they fire Meteor BVRAAM???

If you did the integration with the French, absolutely. In fact, Pakistan is a good example here. Pakistan was the first American customer who, on their -16's, decided to put a French LANTIRN POD and it's worked for decades. Same can happen with Meteor. The real question is, will the French sell it to you?

 

[fatman17]

Pakistan test fires indigenously built Ra'ad cruise missile

20 January 2016

The Pakistani Air Force has test-fired the indigenously built Air Launched Cruise Missile (ALCM) Ra'ad at an undisclosed location.

The Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) said the missile system enabled Pakistan to achieve a greater strategic stand-off capability on land and at sea.

"This milestone will surely enhance strategic stability and contribute to peace in the region."

The latest test-launch of the nuclear-capable missile, also known as Hatf-VIII, is the seventh in the series of the test launches conducted since the first in 2007.

A test launch was undertaken in February last year, immediately after India test-fired its Agni V intermediate range ballistic missile.
Ra'ad is a low-altitude air-launched cruise missile, with a range of 350km, which can carry a nuclear or conventional warhead.

The 5m long weighs up to 1,000kg. Its low level flight manoeuvres enable the missile to avoid detection by air defence systems.
Pakistan's Strategic Plans Division director general lieutenant general Mazhar Jamil said: "This milestone will surely enhance strategic stability and contribute to peace in the region."

In December, the Pakistan Army tested the Shaheen-III surface-to-surface ballistic missile from an undisclosed location.

Image: The recent testing of Ra'ad cruise missile marks the sixth of the series. Photo: courtesy of Irib.

 

[truthseeker2010]

On this day 2nd Feb 1974, the Fighting falcon, one of the best selling jet fighters ever built, made its first flight.

 

[fatman17]

Lawmaker Blocks Deal to Sell F-16s to Pakistan

By

GORDON LUBOLD

Feb 10, 2016 5:48 pm ET


WASHINGTON — A senior Republican senator is blocking the Obama administration’s subsidized sale of as many as eight new F-16 jet fighters to Pakistan because of Islamabad’s relationship with a militant group known for targeting U.S.-trained security forces in neighboring Afghanistan.

Sen. Bob Corker (R., Tenn.), chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told Secretary of State John Kerry in a letter that he couldn’t allow the Obama administration to use taxpayer funds to support the sale of the jets.



He cited attacks by the group known as the Haqqani network, saying the government in Islamabad continues to provide haven to its leaders. Pakistani officials weren’t able to respond immediately for comment.

Mr. Corker, who recently returned from his fifth trip to Afghanistan, said the Pakistani government should be welcome to purchase the F-16s with its own money. The planned sale through the State Department’s foreign military sales program, announced last year, aims to reward Pakistan for its efforts against militants.

“I do not want U.S. taxpayer dollars going to support these acquisitions,” Mr. Corker said in an interview. “While we’re spending tremendous amounts of U.S. dollars and certainly tremendous sacrifice in our men and women in uniform and by other agencies, they are working simultaneously to destabilize Afghanistan.”

Mr. Corker said he was using his authority as a committee chairman to object single-handedly to the proposed sale.

“I fully understand that our relationship with Pakistan is both complicated and imperfect,” Mr. Corker wrote in the Feb. 9 letter to Mr. Kerry obtained by The Wall Street Journal. “Cooperation with Pakistan is important and has achieved some of our interests.”

But, he said, Pakistan’s activities are “immensely problematic” and contribute to the notion that Pakistan is a “duplicitous partner, moving sideways rather than forward in resolving regional challenges.”

Obama administration officials said the U.S. has provided equipment and technology to the Pakistanis “to significant effect” in Pakistan’s counterterrorism efforts and has helped the Pakistan military to be more effective against militants in the tribal regions but while minimizing “collateral damage.”

“Our relationship with Pakistan is not about any one system, nor any one capability,” said David McKeeby, of the State Department’s Bureau of Political-Military Affairs, which oversees foreign military sales. “We go deeper than that.”

A Pentagon spokesman said he couldn’t discuss foreign military sales until Congress is formally notified.

”Our bilateral defense relationship with Pakistan is focused on enhancing counterterrorism capabilities and improving the military’s ability to deny ungoverned spaces to terrorists that undermine stability in the region,” said Christopher Sherwood, a Pentagon spokesman.

Share this:

BOB CORKER DEFENSE F-16HAQQANI NETWORK PAKISTAN

 

[fatman17]

Key point

Mr. Corker, who recently returned from his fifth trip to Afghanistan, said the Pakistani government should be welcome to purchase the F-16s with its own money. The planned sale through the State Department’s foreign military sales program, announced last year, aims to reward Pakistan for its efforts against militants.

 

[mingle]

Key point

Mr. Corker, who recently returned from his fifth trip to Afghanistan, said the Pakistani government should be welcome to purchase the F-16s with its own money. The planned sale through the State Department’s foreign military sales program, announced last year, aims to reward Pakistan for its efforts against militants.

In other words Pak should use his pocket for purchase it's not big issue it will be resolved .Deal will be go through for sure .