Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Gentelman]

We should learn from experience, i dont trust F16's at all, may be during war they dont work, strings, software expiry like stinger missiles, sanction
After great success of JF 17 project, we should simultaneously should start another project for advance gen. Heavy fighter with twin engine so we can have no's and quality to face any enemy

well was that a joke???
if not then listenn....
JfT isnot in it's 100% capable and mature platform
1st let it be a mature fighter....
we don't produce 100% JFT yet and PAf needs to stuck JFT orogram atleast till 2035
it's enough for us....
till that time we will be able to fully design and equip our gets..
well twin engine??:o
not now
economically bad.....
well i hope to see JFT a capable platform in near future..
J 10 is our high tech option.....
PAF learned from past....
we r not relying on Americans like before..
cheers..

 

[mdcp]

Jf17 is doing well and we are making progress, where as j10 is our current need but what about after few years do we need to be in same position we in right now
The problem with Pakistam is always we are short sighted , we need to plan for long term so in case of emergency if we got funds available always you can get from market but in normal circumustances see long term solution
There is no need to make 100% urself, ts a business technique, cost , time, availibilty issue,if u spend less energy, money and time to outsource than y not

 

[Xracer]

We should learn from experience, i dont trust F16's at all, may be during war they dont work, strings, software expiry like stinger missiles, sanction
After great success of JF 17 project, we should simultaneously should start another project for advance gen. Heavy fighter with twin engine so we can have no's and quality to face any enemy

well was that a joke???
if not then listenn....
JfT isnot in it's 100% capable and mature platform
1st let it be a mature fighter....
we don't produce 100% JFT yet and PAf needs to stuck JFT orogram atleast till 2035
it's enough for us....
till that time we will be able to fully design and equip our gets..
well twin engine??:o
not now
economically bad.....
well i hope to see JFT a capable platform in near future..
J 10 is our high tech option.....
PAF learned from past....
we r not relying on Americans like before..
cheers..

Yes thats Right the main strategy we r not relying on Americans like Before
And JF Thunder is improving Day by Day as for Single Engine Jet why Indian is Developing HAL Tejas design powered by a single engine.Why is F35 has Single Engine.

Single Engine Doctrine Has better the Future Than Twin Engine.

2 engines is almost customary practice
Examples F - 15, remarkable, long range capable kill, excellent over lebanon 1982
F - 4 , good in vietnam and israelis did the best of them during many years
Su 27, the most agile fighter modern times wil see, vertical climb un - matched by none other plane eastern or western impressive maneuver capability
Mig 25, high altitude interceptor, pilots claim they see earth curve, no single engine jet goes so high so fast!
, Su 37 ,remarkable.
A 10 Thunderbolt II Tank Killer , spectacular performance over gulf war
F 18 Hornet
F14 excellent during iraq - iran war, iranians did Absolutely great
EA6B prowler , perfect service ever since vietnam.
F111 raeven electronic warfare 2 engines
look after redundant systems inside A 10 warthogs very necessary and very capable, plane sustains damage and keeps going on

after korean war it almost became non written rule to have 2 engines better than one

Single engine
French Mirage F1. good in the hands of Israelis, popular all around latin american air forces
F16 .good for every thing , very versatile
Starfighther F 104 , great, but cruel in the hands of novice pilots, Burns too much fuel
F 105 Thunderchief, spectacular vietnam service
A - 4 skyhawk superb over falklands war
Not to forget The mighty JF 17 Thunder
Many single engine jets are one pilot only, then modifications meant pilot and weapon specialist on the back . examples F 15 was 1st single pilot then became 2 pilots, F1 mirage french plane is mostly 1 pilot, A4 skyhawk was always one pilot only, most of times F16 is one pilot. F18 was single seater then became 2 seats, F14 was always a two seats plane A10 is always single pilot plane. F111 was always 2 engines two pilots

Depends on missions , doctrine and number of pilots to be trained

 

[mdcp]

Pakistan is a country or over 180 million ppl not small tiny city
So wee need to defend ppl, assets etc
Finish corruption and use money on research and building

 

[Gentelman]

Pakistan is a country or over 180 million ppl not small tiny city
So wee need to defend ppl, assets etc
Finish corruption and use money on research and building

what was the point???

 

[mdcp]

Point is we should not restrict ourselve to only one or two platform

 

[dexter]

JHMCS , HGU-55P + MBU-20P , NVG

Air Marshal A. Rashid Sheikh greeting pilot Squadron Leader Shahid Lateef of 1st PAF F-16 to land in Pakistan on January 15, 1983. [Picture courtesy: Air Marshal (Retd) Shahid Lateef, VCAS]

Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal M Anwar Shamim, stands alongside President of Pakistan General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, along with the first six F-16 pilots, Wg Cdr Shahid Javed, Wg Cdr Ahmed Kuli Khattak, Sqn Ldr Shahid Lateef, Sqn Ldr A Sami Toor, Sqn Ldr M Avais and Sqn Ldr Muzaffar Ali. [Picture courtesy: Air Marshal (Retd) Shahid Lateef, VCAS]

 

[Jango]

That's a great watch by the looks of it.

 

[notorious_eagle]

That's a great watch by the looks of it.

And the man wearing the watch is one of the finest pilots Pakistan Air Force has ever produced. Simply top class, one in a million. He could go up against the best of the best, and pound them like roost turkey. I forgot the name of that hot shot US Naval Pilot who was considered the best in his league, AVM Shahid had him in his gun sights in less than minute much to the astonishment of everyone there.

 

[Jango]

And the man wearing the watch is one of the finest pilots Pakistan Air Force has ever produced. Simply top class, one in a million. He could go up against the best of the best, and pound them like roost turkey. I forgot the name of that hot shot US Naval Pilot who was considered the best in his league, AVM Shahid had him in his gun sights in less than minute much to the astonishment of everyone there.

Yeah, I heard this story once.

 

[umair86pk]

can this story be shared by someone

 

[Gentelman]

A special feature posted on the PAF Falcons web site provides a fascinating transcript of a one-on-one interview with an anonymous, although apparently very senior, Pakistani Air Force F-16 pilot. It reminds me of YouTube Terry's infamous indiscretions.

The Pakistani pilot manages to embarrass the pride of the Royal Air Force, candidly describe Israeli air-to-air prowess and explain how the US keeps the F-16 Block 52's secrets away from the Pakistanis and -- by extension -- the Chinese.

On the RAF Typhoon:

On one occasion - in one of the international Anatolian Eagles - PAF pilots were pitted against RAF Typhoons, a formidable aircraft. There were three set-ups and in all three, we shot down the Typhoons. The RAF pilots were shocked.

Q: Any particular reason for your success?

A: NATO pilots are not that proficient in close-in air-to-air combat. They are trained for BVR engagements and their tactics are based on BVR engagements. These were close-in air combat exercises and we had the upper hand because close-in air combat is drilled into every PAF pilot and this is something we are very good at.

On the Israelis:

Q: What are the Isrealis afraid of?

A: What they fear most is that we might learn about their tactics, especially BVR countermeasure tactics, which they have mastered.

Q: I heard a rumour that the TuAF once gave PAF pilots the opportunity to fly with and against the Israelis in A. TuAF F-16s pretending to be Turkish pilots - even letting them sit in the Turkish-Israeli ACMI de-briefs?

A: No comments.

On US concerns about the Chinese:

To recall an interesting little story: soon after the first F-16s were delivered to Pakistan in the mid-80s, the PLAAF Chief visited Sargodha. The Americans were there as well. As a gesture of courtesy, the PAF showed the PLAAF Chief one of the F-16s and let him sit in the cockpit. Some US technicians were there looking on. As soon as the PLAAF Chief sat in the F-16 cockpit, the first thing he did was to start measuring the HUD with his fingers, you know, when you extend your little finger and thumb to measure something? This worried the Americans.

On US export control practices:

They have ways of keeping an eye on the Block 52s without being personally present. The main concern is the transfer of cutting-edge technology - the avionics and radar, the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) the Sniper pod. They have put digital seals all the sensitive technologies, which can only be opened via a code, which only they know. If there is a malfunction or these parts need to be serviced, they will be taken out of the Block 52s and shipped back to the US for repairs/servicing. If we try to pry open these systems without the codes, inbuilt alarms will be relayed to the Americans, which will be a breach of the contract.

Q: Will the Americans be able to track the locations of the Block 52s through some sort of tracking devices hidden inside the aircraft?

A: If there are tracking devices then they will be inside the sealed systems, like the avionics suites or the sniper pods because we will not have the ability to look inside. If their Predator and Reaper drones are transmitting their GPS locations via satellite so can a Block 52 F-16.

Even though Turkey produces the F-16, there are some components that are manufactured in the US and only come to Turkey for the final assembly. In one incident, a Turkish Block 50 crashed and the pilot was killed. They salvaged the wreckage and laid it out in hanger and started putting together the pieces to find out the cause. They found a piece of sealed equipment which had cracked open and inside they found some device that looked like a bug. Upon inquiry, it turned out to be a tracking device.

 

[umair86pk]

US Navy Ex-PAF F-16s training at NAS Pensacola.


http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2013/jan/17/t-ar-5395129/

 

[Safriz]

by Zaki Khalid
[TX Desk]

US Ambassador to Pakistan Richard Olson met Pakistan Air Force Chief Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt at Air Headquarters in Islamabad to discuss the country's F-16 programme.

According to a statement by the PAF, "various areas of further cooperation" were also discussed. After the meeting, the US Ambassador accompanied the PAF Chief on a visit to Shahbaz airbase where he was given an on-site briefing of the F-16 programme.

Sources in the PAF said that the US Ambassador discussed the refurbishing of 45 F-16 jets by Turkish Aerospace Industries, under a deal that was signed in 2010. In 2012, 3 upgraded F-16 jets were already delivered to Pakistan.

Besides the F-16s, Ambassador Olson also discussed a mid-life upgrade of older combat jets in the Pakistan Air Force fleet.

A statement by the US Embassy in Islamabad read: "Both sides affirmed their mutual commitment to a strong defence relationship which they agreed should focus on achieving common objectives".

This discussion was held under the pretext of the US Foreign Military Assistance programme.

Terminal X: US Ambassador meets Pakistan Air Force Chief to discuss the F-16 programme

 

[fatman17]

Tuesday, January 22, 2013


US envoy, PAF chief review F-16 programme


ISLAMABAD: US Ambassador Richard Olson and Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt on Monday reviewed Pakistan’s F-16 programme. Ambassador Olson reaffirmed the importance of a strong US-Pakistan security relationship during an exchange of ideas with Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt. Both sides affirmed their mutual commitment to a strong defence relationship which they agreed should focus on achieving common objectives. Ambassador Olson and the air chief marshal reviewed the Pakistani F-16 programme and visited the home of Pakistan’s F-16s, at PAF Base Shahbaz.

“This visit, and the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) F-16 programme itself, represent concrete examples of US-Pakistan cooperation to support our shared security goals and to promote peace and stability in the region,” said Ambassador Olson. Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt welcomed the US ambassador and said, “Ambassador Olson’s visit is important because it focuses on achieving common objectives and it shows the US and Pakistan working together to strengthen cooperation to support each country’s security interests.”

The PAF has been flying F-16s since the early 1980s. In 2008, the PAF bought the advanced Block 52 model using national funds. The plane has all-weather day/night precision targeting capability. The US Foreign Military Assistance programme is helping the PAF upgrade its fleet of older F-16 aircraft to match these new capabilities. With their state-of-the-art ability to support Pakistan’s counter-terror efforts, these aircraft are the backbone of the PAF. staff report