Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Arsalan]

WELL ONE CAN ONLY HOPE AND PRAY FOR THAT
BELIEVE ME AMERICAN CONGRESSMAN WOULDN'T ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN
BUT A DISAPPROVAL OF BUYING AMERICAN FIGHTER JETS BY INDIAN GOVERNMENT IN MRCA COMPETITION
WOULD SERIOUSLY BROUGHT AMERICAN IN THE TABLE OF TALKS TO SELL IT's F-16s TO PAKISTAN​

i totally agree with this!
actually the problem wiht us have been that we were left wiht no real option but to stick with the US!
we are getting JF for routine missions and fill in the neumwric gap. the FC20 will be here with us for the high end role but this will not be happening before 2014 - 2015.even then it will not be a mature system,though it is very likely that FC20 will be on par, if not better then the F16 block 52, but stil we cant comment on it until we know the actual specs and real time performance. now in this scenario with two new platforms, the JF 17 and the FC20, we still need a reliable high tech plane to compensate is anything goes wrong with the JF and the FC. but with JF and FC along with the AWACS it already was a lot of load on our training and maintainance facilities so we were not able to go for another new platform like J11, or gripen or anything so we were compled to go for the F16 with which our staff have a lot of experience. i hope this will help you a bit, this is what i think about the F16 deal!

regards!

 

[nightrider_saulat]

i totally agree with this!
actually the problem wiht us have been that we were left wiht no real option but to stick with the US!
we are getting JF for routine missions and fill in the neumwric gap. the FC20 will be here with us for the high end role but this will not be happening before 2014 - 2015.even then it will not be a mature system,though it is very likely that FC20 will be on par, if not better then the F16 block 52, but stil we cant comment on it until we know the actual specs and real time performance. now in this scenario with two new platforms, the JF 17 and the FC20, we still need a reliable high tech plane to compensate is anything goes wrong with the JF and the FC. but with JF and FC along with the AWACS it already was a lot of load on our training and maintainance facilities so we were not able to go for another new platform like J11, or gripen or anything so we were compled to go for the F16 with which our staff have a lot of experience. i hope this will help you a bit, this is what i think about the F16 deal!

regards!

YES YOU ARE SAYING RIGHT OUR EXPERIENCE WITH F-16.
IS OUR MAIN REASON TO GO FOR F-16s AT FIRST CHOICE
INSTEAD OF J-10B

 

[Arsalan]

YES YOU ARE SAYING RIGHT OUR EXPERIENCE WITH F-16.
IS OUR MAIN REASON TO GO FOR F-16s AT FIRST CHOICE
INSTEAD OF J-10B

yes , getting so many of new platforms at the same time specially when non of them is a mature and established system would not have been wise and for this reason the time frame is adjusted such that first we will be getting JF17, then in four to five years when we will be good at JF, FC20 will start comming in, perhaps that will be the time when PAF start looking for another high tech aircraft, a 4.5 generation preferably, to complement the high end role of FC20!

so we can say that after or around 2015 PAF will be operating a new fleet of planes which are not with us these days!

regards!

 

[jalip]

yes , getting so many of new platforms at the same time specially when non of them is a mature and established system would not have been wise and for this reason the time frame is adjusted such that first we will be getting JF17, then in four to five years when we will be good at JF, FC20 will start comming in, perhaps that will be the time when PAF start looking for another high tech aircraft, a 4.5 generation preferably, to complement the high end role of FC20!

so we can say that after or around 2015 PAF will be operating a new fleet of planes which are not with us these days!

regards![/QUOTE


What about mirages used or new that will give us few year for maturing JF 17 and Fc 20 and they cant be expensive then F 16 block 52

 

[Arsalan]

the issue of used mirages, the opportunities of getting them and the merits and semerits of that deal have been discussed in detil on relavent thread. i must not mention all those points but the conclusion drawn from that discussion was that they were not the perfect match for the F16 blk52 and also that our govt. still hope for something good comming from the US side! it is us who strongly dont think so but it does not matter because it is the govt. which make the decesions!
but the point you made is very true!
we have good experience with mirages, perhaps we know about them more then we know about the F16 as we have been involved in there upgradation programmes.
perhaps it was an issue of IAF operating the mirage 2000-05 and we didnt wanted to go for the same platform. other then all the technicals prespective, the crashima attatched to the falcons must alos have played its part!

regards!

 

[SBD-3]

the crashima attatched to the falcons must alos have played its part!

regards!

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[jalip]

the issue of used mirages, the opportunities of getting them and the merits and semerits of that deal have been discussed in detil on relavent thread. i must not mention all those points but the conclusion drawn from that discussion was that they were not the perfect match for the F16 blk52 and also that our govt. still hope for something good comming from the US side! it is us who strongly dont think so but it does not matter because it is the govt. which make the decesions!
but the point you made is very true!
we have good experience with mirages, perhaps we know about them more then we know about the F16 as we have been involved in there upgradation programmes.
perhaps it was an issue of IAF operating the mirage 2000-05 and we didnt wanted to go for the same platform. other then all the technicals prespective, the crashima attatched to the falcons must alos have played its part!

regards!

Greece in the past shot down Turkish F 16 and Greece people are very proud on it i have some friends from greece they already served in armed forces they says that mirages are not bad if india have it so what we are not going for some thing different we have more experience then Indians on mirages
regards

 

[MastanKhan]

Greece in the past shot down Turkish F 16 and Greece people are very proud on it i have some friends from greece they already served in armed forces they says that mirages are not bad if india have it so what we are not going for some thing different we have more experience then Indians on mirages
regards

Hi,

M2k is as superior a plane as the F 16. It was an assessment blunder on the part of the PAF not getting this plane---we are paying heavily for that mistake for the years gone by and years to come.

 

[ironman]

Hi,

M2k is as superior a plane as the F 16. It was an assessment blunder on the part of the PAF not getting this plane---we are paying heavily for that mistake for the years gone by and years to come.

Totally agree with you. By the way India has also done the same mistake in the 80's.

 

[PAFAce]

Hi,

M2k is as superior a plane as the F 16. It was an assessment blunder on the part of the PAF not getting this plane---we are paying heavily for that mistake for the years gone by and years to come.

You seem to be a huge fan of the M2K. I agree it seems a very capable aircraft, but I doubt it would give the PAF the multi-role capability that the F-16 has given. In fact, I am struggling to think of any Air Force around the world that has the M2Ks as its frontline fighter (that's not so say there aren't any, I am just saying that I don't know of any). I also don't see M2Ks satisfying the needs of the Air Superiority squadrons in the PAF, in particular, Squadron 11 and 9. Also, the F-16s are tried and tested in the aviation world, it is one of the most widely used and wanted fighters today. If you offered the F-16 to most countries today, they would take it no-questions-asked. It is still considered the best non-thrust-vectoring conventional dogfighting aircraft in the world, because that was why it was created.

Don't take me wrong, I am not saying it is the absolute best thing out there. Neither am I trying to sell the M2K short. What I'm trying to show is that there is no way the M2K would have been a better choice for the PAF than the F-16s. It just would not have given us as many capabilities.

Or, maybe I misunderstood your point, in which case, I apologize.

 

[Arsalan]

You seem to be a huge fan of the M2K. I agree it seems a very capable aircraft, but I doubt it would give the PAF the multi-role capability that the F-16 has given. In fact, I am struggling to think of any Air Force around the world that has the M2Ks as its frontline fighter (that's not so say there aren't any, I am just saying that I don't know of any). I also don't see M2Ks satisfying the needs of the Air Superiority squadrons in the PAF, in particular, Squadron 11 and 9. Also, the F-16s are tried and tested in the aviation world, it is one of the most widely used and wanted fighters today. If you offered the F-16 to most countries today, they would take it no-questions-asked. It is still considered the best non-thrust-vectoring conventional dogfighting aircraft in the world, because that was why it was created.

Don't take me wrong, I am not saying it is the absolute best thing out there. Neither am I trying to sell the M2K short. What I'm trying to show is that there is no way the M2K would have been a better choice for the PAF than the F-16s. It just would not have given us as many capabilities.

Or, maybe I misunderstood your point, in which case, I apologize.

good analysis dear!
the M2K is indeed a great plane but wont have satisfied our needs. even i dont remember of any AF using mirages as frontline fighters!


regards!

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Paface,

My point of view simply is that M2K had no sanctions on it. F 16 is the greatest plane there is---but when we can't get to fly it off our airfields due to the shortage of spares---what good will it do---.

We need a reliable supplier---a quality plane---a technology that is up at the front line---we have to be fair to our pilots.

 

[fatman17]

what makes us think the M2K is superior to the F-16 - if it were, then a lot of airforces around the world would be jumping for it, which is not the case - keep the politics aside and compare please!

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

What is superior---is what I have available to me without any strings attached---that is all I have been saying over the time. I am only talking in terms of Pakistan.

If M2k is not flying in as many colors as the F 16 is not for the reason that it is not capable---it is rather the salesmanship of the americans---and american pleasing policies of foreign govts---.

The french are not the best salesmen---the equipment comes in packages that they desire to sell---the americans sells the quipment as the buyer wants it to be---you may buythe package---by the unit or by the dozen---.

The relattionship with france---is also determined by how the americans are dealing with the french at that time.

Now coming down to it---what is the big deal about the present and previous F 16's that pak has---it has an obsolete 80's technology weapons system. The upgrades are a coming---but that is a different story---.

What I am asking is---why are we seeking the best of the best---not everybody marries the 'PROM QUEEN'---what happens to the other girls---they just don't disappear into the haze---as a matter of fact they are the ones who are the caretakers of the future---the prom queen ends with in drugs and divorce---

The same is the case with our pakistani F 16's---we chose the prettiest---didnot realize that the pretty didnot like us.

If pakistan had chosen the M2k in the 80's---the reputation of the mirage would have been at a different pleateau---more countries would have followed the example of pakistan---we would have been assembling / manufacturing most of the m2k in pakistan---and it would have come as no surprise---if pakistan would have partenered france in manufacturing the rafael----the 80's was a very crucial time period for the paf and pak govt---the pak govt failed in understanding the future needs of the paf as did the paf officials tehmsleves---thety went for the HOTTIE and left the old reliable behind.

 

[Arsalan]

Originally Posted by arsalanaslam123
the crashima attatched to the falcons must alos have played its part!

regards!

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opss, really sorry!
i meant to say charisma. got it wrong alltogether!

reagrds!