Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2
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Najam Khan
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Illan ramon's F-16 close shot, not the triangle marking next to Syrian kill mark, showing the Osirak plant attack.
In Sep2003, his 21 yr old son(top graduate from his course) died in an F16 crash. after the incident centrifuge training was made must for all F-16 pilots.
air marshal
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Today In History - June 7, 2002: PAF F-16 piloted by Squadron Leader Zulfiqar and Squadron Leader Afzal (GIBS) of No. 9 MR Squadron 'Griffins' destroy an intruding UAV (Searcher-II) of IAF on the night, during Ops Sentinel. This was the first kill of a UAV by any fighter aircraft in the world.
air marshal
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THE FIRST AND THE FURIOUS: Sqn Ldr Zulfiqar and Sqn Ldr Afzal (GIBS) of No 9 MR Sqn destroy an intruding UAV (Searcher-II) of IAF on the night of 7th June, 2002, during Ops Sentinel. This was the first kill of a UAV by any fighter aircraft in the world.
Abu Zolfiqar
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a memorable day for the PAF.....good shot.
Najam Khan
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ACMI range, Sargodha patch.
Some patches worn by members of Griffins in Red flag/Green Flag.
This one is a big size shoulder patch.
Some patches worn by members of Griffins in Red flag/Green Flag.
This one is a big size shoulder patch.
Arsalan
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thank for the update sir,
one more thing.
as far as i know, the MLU and the turkish STAR upgrade projects were entirely different.
now as you suggest, it seems that the STAR project is gone and turkey have got the order to MLU PAF F-16 with US Supplied kits.
my point is, is the STAR upgarde program intact and will be carried out after MLU or is it cancled.
Also what it was supposed to cover?
Looking forward for your reply.
Arsalan Aslam
fatman17
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i think both are being done
Aamir Hussain
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The Falcon Up/Falcon STAR upgrade program is to enhance the airframe life. As far as I know it is part of the MLU beibng carried out in Turkey.
Aamir Hussain
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BTW
"With the recent acquisitions of F-16s, Lockheed Martin plans to sustain production on the F-16 line at Ft. Worth beyond 2010. Major upgrades for all F-16 versions are being incorporated to keep the fleet modern and fully supportable over the aircraft’s long service life. As all F-16 blocks, recent production blocks of the F-16 such as Block 50, 52 and 60 are also designed, from the ground up, with enough growth potential in weight growth, cabling, data connectivity and capacity, electrical power, and physical space, to enable growth throughout a life span of 40 years and beyond. Utilization of standard interfaces such as 1760, 1553 and the new FiberChannel five channels, Gigabit rate databus, enable rapid interfacing and data sharing throughout the aircraft systems. In addition to the production programs, Lockheed Martin has incorporated a "roadmap of convergence" for F-16 upgrades and production aircraft, consisting of an integrated plan that will result in maximum commonality throughout the fleet."
"With the recent acquisitions of F-16s, Lockheed Martin plans to sustain production on the F-16 line at Ft. Worth beyond 2010. Major upgrades for all F-16 versions are being incorporated to keep the fleet modern and fully supportable over the aircraft’s long service life. As all F-16 blocks, recent production blocks of the F-16 such as Block 50, 52 and 60 are also designed, from the ground up, with enough growth potential in weight growth, cabling, data connectivity and capacity, electrical power, and physical space, to enable growth throughout a life span of 40 years and beyond. Utilization of standard interfaces such as 1760, 1553 and the new FiberChannel five channels, Gigabit rate databus, enable rapid interfacing and data sharing throughout the aircraft systems. In addition to the production programs, Lockheed Martin has incorporated a "roadmap of convergence" for F-16 upgrades and production aircraft, consisting of an integrated plan that will result in maximum commonality throughout the fleet."
Haq1
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Pakistani F-16 shotdown Eurofighter Typhoon, during air compat exercise in Turkey. F-16 Falcon fighter have beaten the RAF's brand-new Eurofighter Typhoon superfighters during air combat exercises in Turkey, according to a Pakistani officer
The RAF Typhoon, formerly known as the Eurofighter, should nonetheless have been vastly superior in air-to-air combat whether BVR or close in within visual range (WVR). The cripplingly expensive, long-delayed Eurofighter was specifically designed to address the defects of its predecessor the Tornado F3 – famously almost useless in close-in, dogfighting-style air combat. The Typhoon was meant to see off such deadly in-close threats as Soviet "Fulcrums" and "Flankers" using short-range missiles fired using helmet-mounted sight systems: such planes were thought well able to beat not just Tornados but F-16s in close fighting, and this expectation was borne out after the Cold War when the Luftwaffe inherited some from the East German air force and tried them out in exercises.
Thus it is that huge emphasis was placed on manoeuvring capability and dogfighting in the design of the Eurofighter. The expensive Euro-jet was initially designed, in fact, as a pure fighter with no ground attack options at all – bomber capability has had to be retrofitted subsequently at still more expense. Despite lacking various modern technologies such as Stealth and thrust-vectoring the resulting Typhoon is generally touted as being one of the best air-to-air combat planes in the world right now. Certainly it is meant to be good in close fighting: it is armed with the Advanced Short Range Air to Air Missile (ASRAAM) which as its name suggests is intended for the close WVR fight.
Perhaps the account above is simply a lie, or anyway a bit of a fighter pilot tall story. But the pilot quoted will be easily identifiable inside his community if not to the outside world, and he could expect a lot of flak for telling a lie on such a matter in public. It seems likelier that the story is the truth as he perceived it: that the RAF's new superfighter was thrashed in the very type of combat it is supposed to be best at by a 1970s-era plane, albeit much modernised.
It's always possible, as the anonymous Pakistani pilot suggests, that the problem was with the crews. It may be that RAF pilots simply don't know how to fight close-in. During the many years when they had no other fighter than the lamentable Tornado F3 (the Typhoon only reached front line service a few years ago) they may have lost the institutional skillset required for dogfighting with short-range missiles.
But in general when the British forces perform badly it isn't because of a lack of skills and training. It's far more normal for them to be let down by their kit. Based on this account, the Typhoon is actually worse than an F-16, and as a result an export Flanker or Fulcrum equipped with Archer missiles would beat it easily in WVR combat.
It would appear that the Eurofighter's last remaining selling point compared to modern US-made stealth fighters which cost the same or less (or for that matter vastly cheaper ordinary non-stealth fighters like the F-16, F-18 Hornet etc) now has something of a question mark over it.
Source: ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS
The RAF Typhoon, formerly known as the Eurofighter, should nonetheless have been vastly superior in air-to-air combat whether BVR or close in within visual range (WVR). The cripplingly expensive, long-delayed Eurofighter was specifically designed to address the defects of its predecessor the Tornado F3 – famously almost useless in close-in, dogfighting-style air combat. The Typhoon was meant to see off such deadly in-close threats as Soviet "Fulcrums" and "Flankers" using short-range missiles fired using helmet-mounted sight systems: such planes were thought well able to beat not just Tornados but F-16s in close fighting, and this expectation was borne out after the Cold War when the Luftwaffe inherited some from the East German air force and tried them out in exercises.
Thus it is that huge emphasis was placed on manoeuvring capability and dogfighting in the design of the Eurofighter. The expensive Euro-jet was initially designed, in fact, as a pure fighter with no ground attack options at all – bomber capability has had to be retrofitted subsequently at still more expense. Despite lacking various modern technologies such as Stealth and thrust-vectoring the resulting Typhoon is generally touted as being one of the best air-to-air combat planes in the world right now. Certainly it is meant to be good in close fighting: it is armed with the Advanced Short Range Air to Air Missile (ASRAAM) which as its name suggests is intended for the close WVR fight.
Perhaps the account above is simply a lie, or anyway a bit of a fighter pilot tall story. But the pilot quoted will be easily identifiable inside his community if not to the outside world, and he could expect a lot of flak for telling a lie on such a matter in public. It seems likelier that the story is the truth as he perceived it: that the RAF's new superfighter was thrashed in the very type of combat it is supposed to be best at by a 1970s-era plane, albeit much modernised.
It's always possible, as the anonymous Pakistani pilot suggests, that the problem was with the crews. It may be that RAF pilots simply don't know how to fight close-in. During the many years when they had no other fighter than the lamentable Tornado F3 (the Typhoon only reached front line service a few years ago) they may have lost the institutional skillset required for dogfighting with short-range missiles.
But in general when the British forces perform badly it isn't because of a lack of skills and training. It's far more normal for them to be let down by their kit. Based on this account, the Typhoon is actually worse than an F-16, and as a result an export Flanker or Fulcrum equipped with Archer missiles would beat it easily in WVR combat.
It would appear that the Eurofighter's last remaining selling point compared to modern US-made stealth fighters which cost the same or less (or for that matter vastly cheaper ordinary non-stealth fighters like the F-16, F-18 Hornet etc) now has something of a question mark over it.
Source: ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS
Arsalan
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yes the STAR upgards were planned with Turkey and now with Turkey winning a contract for MLU of PAF F-16 with US supplierd kit, there is ever possibility that STAR upgradation is being carrined out along with.
it requires a well informed person from PAF to update on this!
Arsalan Aslam
Najam Khan
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On a different note, Sargodha has F16 Upgrade cell responsible for doing both structural & avionics maintenance/upgrade. Also, all PAF F16 engine have been upgraded from F100 PW220 to F100 PW220E at PAC, Kamra. A total of 26 modifications are done....the performance of F100 PW220E is very much better than its previous variant.
Recently the F16s which participated in Izmir/Al-Saqoor-II were flying with F100 PW220E.
Because of influence of China in PAF, US Govt didn't allow Pakistan to have Falcon-Up program at PAC Lockheed Martin & TAI were given contract.
Recently the F16s which participated in Izmir/Al-Saqoor-II were flying with F100 PW220E.
Because of influence of China in PAF, US Govt didn't allow Pakistan to have Falcon-Up program at PAC Lockheed Martin & TAI were given contract.
fatman17
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LM still manufacturing new blk-52's for morrocco, turkey and is pushing the US govt to approve sales to taiwan and iraq. hence the F-16 program will continue for a while.
Aamir Hussain
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"Lead the Fleet" aircraft for Falcon UP and MLU are already in US . LM, after a close study of these aircrafts has sold package/kits to Pakistan for upgrades incorporating these structural change/enhancment elements as well. PAF had a bare minimum requirment laid out from their side over and above the standard airframe life and avionics/systmes upgrades. These are not major elements but more peculiar ot PAF requirment, operating conditions and pilot interfaces (Man-machine interfaces)
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