What's new

Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

This article might be of interest related to the F-16 so i am posting it here:

Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR)

The Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) will be a full performance fire control AESA. SABR will offer all the advantages of an active electronically scanned multi-function array, but at significant cost savings. Designed to support next generation weapons and tactics, the SABR ensures the needed combat advantage over the adversary. While designed initially to fit the F-16 with no structural, power or cooling modifications, the SABR is scalable to fit other aircraft platforms and mission areas.

Meets/exceeds operational requirements

*
Multi-function/Multi-mission
* Increased Range
* Time Sensitive Precision Strike
* Data Link/Communications
* Interleaved Modes

Improves Reliability & Maintainability

* Commonality
* Decreased Life Cycle Costs
* AESA Array Maintenance
* Common/Open System Architecture for Future Growth

Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR)
 
IF we aquire 100 F-16 Block 52s then wheater IAF upgrades Mirages or Fulcrums it really doesnt makes any difference since only few countries are using such an advanced variant of Viper e.g, HAF, Israel AF, PolAF and the IAF even havnt seen these variants. Now dont tell me about the Vipers of USAF and RSAF since they were Block 50s.
PAF lags behind in numbers, only 18 will not fulfil the requirment nor they will give us a punch but yes there are many other options.

Seconly the Astra is currently a baby developed by DRDO, its operational range is 80 kms where as AIM-120s range is 105 kms. Thus the PAF will have the first fire capability. Where as the R-77 range is 100 kms and the most important advantage of AIM-120C is that its accuracy rate is far more superior to R-77 and yes dont compare Astra with it. It is just like you are comparing a Mig-29 with LCA.

And ofcourse the world is turning towards the precision guided air to ground stores, and PAF is aquiring the following weapons technology,

500 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) Guidance Kits: GBU-31/38 Guided Bomb Unit (GBU) kits;

1600 Enhanced-GBU-12/24 GBUs

700 BLU-109 2000 pound bunker-buster bombs with the FMU-143 Fuse.


The above said weapons are being aquired by the PAF and they are and they will be used by the USAFs front line fighters well beyond 2025 because they incorporate all new technologies and modification.

Besides the Precision guided weapons, PAF is aquiring

800 MK-82 500 pound General Purpose (GP) and MK-84 2,000 pound GP bombs;

500 AIM-120C5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM);

12 AMRAAM training missiles, these have seeker warheads, but lack engines;

200 AIM-9M-8/9 Sidewinder Short-Range Air-Air Missiles; they are the version before the fifth-generation AIM-9X;

240 LAU-129/A Launchers, these support AMRAAM or Sidewinder missiles.
 
IF we aquire 100 F-16 Block 52s then wheater IAF upgrades Mirages or Fulcrums it really doesnt makes any difference since only few countries are using such an advanced variant of Viper e.g, HAF, Israel AF, PolAF and the IAF even havnt seen these variants. Now dont tell me about the Vipers of USAF and RSAF since they were Block 50s.
PAF lags behind in numbers, only 18 will not fulfil the requirment nor they will give us a punch but yes there are many other options.

Seconly the Astra is currently a baby developed by DRDO, its operational range is 80 kms where as AIM-120s range is 105 kms. Thus the PAF will have the first fire capability. Where as the R-77 range is 100 kms and the most important advantage of AIM-120C is that its accuracy rate is far more superior to R-77 and yes dont compare Astra with it. It is just like you are comparing a Mig-29 with LCA.

And ofcourse the world is turning towards the precision guided air to ground stores, and PAF is aquiring the following weapons technology,

500 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) Guidance Kits: GBU-31/38 Guided Bomb Unit (GBU) kits;

1600 Enhanced-GBU-12/24 GBUs

700 BLU-109 2000 pound bunker-buster bombs with the FMU-143 Fuse.


The above said weapons are being aquired by the PAF and they are and they will be used by the USAFs front line fighters well beyond 2025 because they incorporate all new technologies and modification.

Besides the Precision guided weapons, PAF is aquiring

800 MK-82 500 pound General Purpose (GP) and MK-84 2,000 pound GP bombs;

500 AIM-120C5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM);

12 AMRAAM training missiles, these have seeker warheads, but lack engines;

200 AIM-9M-8/9 Sidewinder Short-Range Air-Air Missiles; they are the version before the fifth-generation AIM-9X;

240 LAU-129/A Launchers, these support AMRAAM or Sidewinder missiles.

pakpower.
Pakistan lacks the money to feed its own people at the moment. Where do you think the money to buy 100 Bl.52 s will come from? At nearly 80 million per plane, how much will it cost? Remember our home grownThunder. We have just taken a soft loan form thechinese to buy the first 50. Marey Bhai, Pakistan in the hands of these nincumpoops is a bankrupt nation . No wonder we are having to beg specially hard these days.
WaSalam
Araz
 
Araz is totally correct its all about the funds my friend! no money no honey haha we all wish the we can have the f-16's in large numbers after all it is my fav aircraft but again one must come to reailty and understand the times we are facing and perhaps have been facing !
 
Last edited:
Araz is totally correct its all about the funds my friend! no money no honey haha we all wish the we can have the f-16's in large numbers after it is my fav aircraft but again one must come to reailty and understand the times we are faceuing and perhaps have been facing !

Adding to this i will say moreover will US sell 100 jets to Pakistan at the first place, US congress will go mad if this happens. Already we hear every other day some congress man standing up and criticizing the F-16 deal, imagine what will happen if the number goes to 100, what will happen of India who can't digest 18 for now. We have to be realistic before coming out with such a wish list.
 
Whether we can afford it or not...

Well, which developing nation does have enough money to feed their poor? Sometimes you must try to understand that basic equipment for a nation is unquestionable. In reality there are nor much people that like to kill others. Certainly if it is for political reasons only. But if you wait till you can feed everyone then you do not have a nation left. Look at history. Look even at animals. Undefended nations or animals are dead. And about the costs... Well, war is never cheap. Killing young people is also not the best option. But it depends on what kind of opponent you can expect. If you have nations like Africa on the border then ou can do fine with outdated equipment. If you have India, Russia, US, Iran as your probably opponent then I think ou can not do much with ancient sword, spear, bow or your 5 daily prayers. Personally I would be happy that you will be set in front of the soldiers that have to face the enemy... I can tell you that you would not think twice... Why I say that? My father was engineer in the two wars against India. First to enter and last to leave... I might be a man but compared to my dad I am just nothing. Compared to you I do see lots of difference, certainly because you offend not only the military that are in service but those that have sacrified everything to give some like the oppertunity to post. I might be harsh but I rather give an honest reply then anything else.

p.s. same goes for all other military... We might go hard on hard but personally I think it is the politicians that are responsible, the military just have to cope with the effects. :pakistan:

here from aj:

Where crime and politics combine
By Matthew McClure in Muzzafarpur, Bihar

Munna Shukla, running in the state of Bihar, is facing 24 criminal charges
Meeting Munna Shukla can be an intimidating experience.
The alleged gangster-cum-politician grasps your hand in his powerful mitt and slowly begins to squeeze, stares impassively into your eyes, and refuses to avert his gaze or let go until you look away to hide the painful grimace on your face.

Without speaking a single word, Shukla lets you know he is the force to be reckoned with in this dusty corner of the impoverished state of Bihar, in eastern India.

Gangster politics

It was the final day for politicians to file their nomination papers, and we had travelled all morning over potholed roads from the state capital Patna to interview Shukla about his candidacy for the Janata Dal United (JDU) party in Muzzafarpur in north Bihar.

Special report
We were also hoping to learn why he was a front-runner to become the next MP for the area, despite facing a number of criminal charges, including three counts of murder.
We had been waiting for over half-an-hour in an anteroom of his palatial home, squeezed together on sofas with a dozen or so of his political supporters, watched from above by giant photos of his unsmiling likeness, when Shukla strode in confidently.

We had been told by locals that he was widely-feared in this community, but as he led us outside for an interview on his front steps, an appreciative roar went up from the assembled crowd of his campaign faithful, who had been waiting patiently in the heat and now crushed around us to listen.

Shukla told us the area had long elected outsiders who played up caste divisions in the community, but now he predicted confidently that he would win by a landslide and unite the local people.

"I am the son of this soil, the blue-eyed boy of this area," said Shukla, punching into the air with his outstretched fist.

As if on cue, the crowd began shouting in agreement. When Shukla raised his hand again ever so slightly, they immediately fell silent and he continued.

"I have the support of the young, the love of the women. That's what makes me a baahubali."

Literally, baahubali translates from Hindi as muscle man, but in common parlance here in India it means gangster.

One in five

It is not how you might expect a politician to speak about himself, but Shukla is not your average candidate and politics in the world's largest democracy bears little resemblance to the relatively genteel campaigning I grew up with in Canada.

More Videos...One in five members of India's last parliament had criminal cases filed against them while they were in office.
The situation might not be much better this time around, according to numbers compiled by the New Delhi-based Association for Democratic Reforms (ADR) and based on the candidates' own disclosure statements.

Of the more than 1,400 candidates contesting in the first phase of these month-long elections, 16 per cent are facing charges. Many of those are for serious offences like murder, kidnapping and extortion.

Bihar is the worst state, with nearly 25 per cent of candidates having had a serious brush with the law.

Legal loopholes

Indian legislation prohibits a person convicted and sentenced to imprisonment for more than two years from contesting an election. But many politicians manage to postpone or avoid disqualification through legal delays or endless appeals. The country's judicial process is notorious for its glacial pace and the impartiality of judges is occasionally called into question.

There are times, too, when the courts might appear to be inconsistent in their handling of cases involving politicians.

India's Supreme Court refused recently to let Bollywood actor Sanjay Dutt run in these elections because of his conviction for weapons offences.

However, the same court in 2007 stayed a guilty finding against former cricketer and sitting Bharatiya Janata Party MP Navjot Singh Sidhu for killing a man in a road rage incident, enabling him to contest and win a by-election.

Anil Bairwal, ADR's spokesman, has lobbied in vain for changes to the law that would tighten what he sees as loopholes that allow those who appeal their convictions to still run for office.

As an alternative, his group has run a website and toll-free telephone line since the last national elections in 2004, where voters can check the backgrounds of candidates.

"Voters have become a lot more informed," says Bairwal.

"As they ask more questions, we hope the number of candidates elected with criminal background will decline."

Local strongman

Back in Muzzafarpur, Shukla waves and smiles as he and his throng of supporters wind their way through the streets to the elections office where he will file his nomination papers.

If he is worried about his impending trial for the murder of the leader of a rival family, he is not showing it.

When asked whether his long list of charges should disqualify him from running, Shukla glares as he considers his response.

"I am not a petty criminal or a thug," he says.

"In my entire life, I've never even killed an ant."

The crowd begins to shout again and Shukla beams broadly. It seems the only verdict he need fear will come at the polls, and few here seem ready to question whether their faith in this local strongman is misplaced.
 
Last edited:
A few days ago i raised a question over a possible induction of an AESA radar on the current block-52 F-16s that we are going to get. Seems like no one has an answer for now:undecided:. My thanks in advance went in vain.:frown:
 
Pakistan should show desire to buy Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) from USA to check the waters.
 
A few days ago i raised a question over a possible induction of an AESA radar on the current block-52 F-16s that we are going to get. Seems like no one has an answer for now:undecided:. My thanks in advance went in vain.:frown:

I think that is not possible...to accommodate an AESA radar, you need some basic changes...like the one done on the nose of the BLK 60
 
I think that is not possible...to accommodate an AESA radar, you need some basic changes...like the one done on the nose of the BLK 60

Well there was recently a new radar unveiled that is aiming at aircraft like the f-16



LINTHICUM, Md.-- Northrop Grumman [NOC] officials are aiming to round out the development of the company's newest Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) fighter sensor, the Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR), with a flight demonstration aboard an F-16 fighter jet before the year is out.

SABR is being developed as an avionics enhancement for the existing fleet of F-16s in the United States and 44 other countries. Northrop Grumman's goal for the new technology is to "keep the F-16 relevant" as the 30-year-old platform enters the final phase of its service life, according to Katherine Gray, the company's vice president for global sensor solutions.


"Not all of those countries are going to be able to afford or acquire the F-22 [Raptor] or the [F-35 Lightning] Joint Strike Fighter," said Gray. "But we would like to think that they will have the ability to collaborate and work in the F-16s to work with those advanced aircraft."

To that end, Northrop Grumman is designing SABR to cost approximately what a mechanically scanned array (MESA) would typically cost. The average cost of a newer MESA is approximately $2 million.

Further, SABR is "designed to be affordable throughout its lifetime," said Arlene Camp, director of Advanced F-16 Radar Programs at Northrop Grumman.

"It changes the affordability paradigm of what AESA costs," she said. "It's not only going to be affordable to purchase, it will be affordable to own throughout its life cycle."

Camp said that initial estimates indicate that SABR sustainment costs will be lower than the current mechanically scanned options over 20 years.

Northrop Grumman began designing the SABR in 2007 using only internal funds, company officials said.

"We did it because we believe it's an investment that will come back to us," said Camp.

She added that the Air Force has recently called the AESA upgrade for its F-16 fleet its "number one unfunded priority." Funding for the program is not included the service's 10-year spending blueprint beginning in fiscal year 2010, and the Defense Department has not yet released any requests for proposals or information on the project.

In the meantime, Northrop Grumman plans to wrap up SABR development on its own dime by the end of the year. SABR successfully completed its first flight in November on a testbed aircraft.

"We plan to fly on an F-16 this year," Camp said.

Although designed specifically for the F-16, SABR is scalable and adaptable to other platforms, according to Camp. She mentioned the B-1 and B-52 bombers, as well as unmanned attack aircraft.

Camp also said the company would pursue foreign sales of the system "as soon as possible."

[Copyright 2006 Access Intelligence, LLC. All rights reserved.]

TICKER(S): Northrop Grumman [NOC]:
 
A few days ago i raised a question over a possible induction of an AESA radar on the current block-52 F-16s that we are going to get. Seems like no one has an answer for now:undecided:. My thanks in advance went in vain.:frown:

In the days when PAF was ordering the F16s this topic came up for discussion. At that time the gist of the discussion was that there was no precedent to that happenning. If PAF wanted AESA, it would have to pay not only for the integration but also for the research and development cost for the integration(Source. The Hon. Pshamim).PAF did not have the money. That was the reason why we did not have it done then.
As to now, APG68V9 is an excellent PD radar. So there does not appear to be any need for getting an AESA for the moment. Perhaps when we need MLU for the Bl 52s we might consider upgrading, but who knows what our relations with America will be like.Also with theadvent of newer technology and newer suppliers, PAFs options will open up in due course.
WaSalam
Araz
 
Back
Top Bottom