Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[ynmian]

Are these 4 part of the 18 A/C we finally received in Dec 2010?

Moreover they are not block 50/52.

 

[razgriz19]

Are these 4 part of the 18 A/C we finally received in Dec 2010?

Moreover they are not block 50/52.

LOL where do u see A/Cs in them????
and obviously they are not blk 50/52!
look at the pic carefully! they are Bs

 

[razgriz19]

not quite correct - the money in question was US$650m which was advance-payment for the F-16s.

350m was utilised to purchase 'other weapons' and 300m was returned in soybeans.....meanwhile 911 took place, the sanctions were removed - no one wanted these 28 F-16s parked in the desert - not NZ, not Philiapines - they were 'transferred' to USAF and USN - in 2006 Bush admin 'agreed' to give back the a/c as a sign of 'good-will' - USAF released the 14 a/c - the USN did not - in essence the US still owes us 14 F-16s - they offered blk-25/30/40 a/c parked in AMRAC but the PAF rejected these mounts due to their 'airframe stress' - in other words they were too old - so now come in the Norway F-16s as the US has given 'NoC' for PAF to negotiate with the NoAF - further new F-16s are possible but we have to come up with our own funds which looks 'bleak' at this time.

so we basically got our money back. that means they dont owe us anything...
and btw that info was from an interview that musharraf gave it to a western news channel
so i kinda quoted his words......but its the first hand info and that means its reliable!

 

[rajan_united]

US just squezing every drop from its F-16 production lines. Offering India F-16 and saying it ill be the best F-16 ever.....
Pak should buy from China, India from Russia France. BYE BYE OBAMA

 

[air marshal]

Three of six Pakistani Falcons lined up on rwy 15 ready for departure back home after Red Flag. Note the vortex at engine intake.

 

[fatman17]

so we basically got our money back. that means they dont owe us anything...
and btw that info was from an interview that musharraf gave it to a western news channel
so i kinda quoted his words......but its the first hand info and that means its reliable!

there is always gaps between what anyone says in a interview and the 'gory' details. if i offended you, i apologise for that!

 

[ynmian]

LOL where do u see A/Cs in them????
and obviously they are not blk 50/52!
look at the pic carefully! they are Bs

bhai jan...4 aircrafts in the back ground, I know they are Bs (obviously if they are not D then they are Bs).

you have increased my knowledge by saying they are Bs

my question is still not answered
Are these 4 part of the 18 aircrafts we finally received in Dec 2010? or they belong to some other delivery.

 

[bc040400065]

bhai jan...4 aircrafts in the back ground, I know they are Bs (obviously if they are not D then they are Bs).

you have increased my knowledge by saying they are Bs

my question is still not answered
Are these 4 part of the 18 aircrafts we finally received in Dec 2010? or they belong to some other delivery.

though i don't have much knowledge and info about these but just my 2 cents. these are the 4 B's that we recived in 2007. If you read the note under the picture you would have an idea about it. Or may be im wrong but thats all what comes to my mind.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

bhai jan...4 aircrafts in the back ground, I know they are Bs (obviously if they are not D then they are Bs).

you have increased my knowledge by saying they are Bs

my question is still not answered
Are these 4 part of the 18 aircrafts we finally received in Dec 2010? or they belong to some other delivery.

This is an old picture and these birds are 4 out of 14 embargoed F-16 of Pakistan, delivered to PAF in 2008 not in 10.

 

[Tehmasib]

Salam to All
CFT shows on only pic ......when we see in real...........

 

[SBD-3]

bhai jan...4 aircrafts in the back ground, I know they are Bs (obviously if they are not D then they are Bs).

you have increased my knowledge by saying they are Bs

my question is still not answered
Are these 4 part of the 18 aircrafts we finally received in Dec 2010? or they belong to some other delivery.

The serial of 80++++ visible on 1st plane means that these are not the C/D as 80 in the start of serial means that they are 80s manufactured (since PAF Bl 52+ starts from 10801,901 meaning production of 2010), anyways here are the extracts

After the detonation of five nuclear devices by India in May 1998, in a remote area close to its border with Pakistan, Washington feared that this might escalate the old border dispute between Pakistan and India to a full crisis. In order to keep Pakistan from responding to this challenge, US president Bill Clinton suggested that the 28 stored F-16s would be delivered after all, in batches of 1 or 2. However, the internal pressure on the government proved to strong and shortly after India's demonstration, Pakistan responded by detonating an unknown number of nuclear devices.
.
.
.
.
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In 2002, the US finally stopped trying to sell the aircraft and decided to assign them to the USAF and US Navy to fill the Aggressor role. After the demise of the (T)F-16N aggressor force, the US Navy lacked a high-performance aggressor aircraft. Because of the low airframe life of the embargoed Pakistani F-16s, these airframes were ideally suited for the demanding aggressor role. The 28 aircraft were thus evenly split between the USAF and the US Navy, and will take a vital role in DACT training of US forces.

After the attacks on 9/11 the Pakistani government became a major US ally in the war on terror. It was decided to redeliver those aircraft to Pakistan. Untill now, only half of them has been redelivered, with the remainder still to follow.
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article14.html

here is the delivery schedule
http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/serials-and-inventory/airforce/PAF/1/
I hope this weeds out confusion

 

[MastanKhan]

so we basically got our money back. that means they dont owe us anything...
and btw that info was from an interview that musharraf gave it to a western news channel
so i kinda quoted his words......but its the first hand info and that means its reliable!

Hi,

You got that right----the money back with no interest at all----how long they kept close to 3/4 billion dollars----.

One of the biggest screw ups of paf history---a law suit in the u s court of law would have earned them some respect----and also penalty as well---as well as interest and some dignity and honor.

Actually we barely got some of the money back----700 million dollars after 8---10 years at nominal interest rate would have been a substantial amount---it showed how impotent the paf management and pak govt was at that time----. Just consider the devaluation factor of the dollar during that time.

Giving an example-----when all the money was in----supposedlly in a construction project a 100 miles of road cost a 100 million dollars---after 10 years the cost to do the same job may have gone up as much as 5 to 10 times---ie from a 1/2 billion to a billion dollars.

So---basically---pakistan which gave close to 700 million dollars upfront got back in real money maybe about 100 million dollars worth of equipment and grain.

That is a black spot on PAF----.

 

[truthseeker2010]

What is the current cost of a new F-16, whichever variant that is currently under production. The total cost that comes of a FMS program, what does that include?

 

[Dazzler]

What is the current cost of a new F-16, whichever variant that is currently under production. The total cost that comes of a FMS program, what does that include?

Only blk 50/52+ (Pakistan, Poland, Chile, Greece, Morocco, Turkey, Singapore etc..), 60/62 (exclusive for UAE) are under production. Cost varies from 50-60 million$ for 50/52 to 70-80 million $ for blk 60/62.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

So---basically---pakistan which gave close to 700 million dollars upfront got back in real money maybe about 100 million dollars worth of equipment and grain.

That is a black spot on PAF----.

To a large extent, I agree.

from Pakistan's perspective, many can say that allies do not treat allies this way; it was totally wrong. The service is not awash in money to be dishing around; AT LEAST the money should have been returned. But instead it (and the aircrafts) were held hostage

still didn't deter us from enriching uranium --which takes us to the American perspective....

and that is, enriching uranium had its repercussions which Pakistan did face. I believe it was Colin Powell who admitted that Pakistan was ''sanctioned to the teeth'' (to a greater degree than Iran even)

which takes us BACK to the Pakistani standpoint. indian were the one who started the trend, we were just reacting as it was in our existential right.

9/11 and GWOT was an ''opportunity'' for Pakistan, but in net terms ---it was the biggest curse for Pakistan and other countries (Iraq and Afghanistan included)

15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi nationals --many 'bred' in Germany and even the U.S. Yet the weaker countries which had nothing to do with 9/11 suffered --politically and otherwise.


Now we do have the new F-16s, and/but we must move towards self-reliance and joint projects as this is the key to PAF success as it aims to continue its policy of minimal credible deterrance