Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[DANGER-ZONE]

i think india is going for F16in.

 

[Super Falcon]

u think it but india will not go for F 16 for sure becoz i know it my gut felling and sixisth sense what ever u call it

 

[Super Falcon]

yes i remember with GRACE OF ALMIGHTY ALLAH WE CAN DO IT AGAIN

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

u think it but india will not go for F 16 for sure becoz i know it my gut felling and sixisth sense what ever u call it

Sixth Sense


and yeah I agree, i doubt they'd opt for the F16. In all honesty, if I were them I would go for FA/18 Hornet. But I think in the end, they will stick to their Russian suppliers. Maybe they'll go for Mig-35, which is an awesome looking aircraft I must say. How it were to perform, well we'll never know anytime soon.

Unless.....

 

[Super Falcon]

yes Mig 35 is front runner contander if russian cant sell it if they offer it to pakistan PAF will be more than happy to buy

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Sixth Sense


and yeah I agree, i doubt they'd opt for the F16. In all honesty, if I were them I would go for FA/18 Hornet. But I think in the end, they will stick to their Russian suppliers. Maybe they'll go for Mig-35, which is an awesome looking aircraft I must say. How it were to perform, well we'll never know anytime soon.

Unless.....

NAH....
every one can see INDIAN military train is chainging its track to wards .
a few dacades ago indian millitary was a cloned force of russians,a little of eurpion too.but if u take a look on their weopon deals with USA now,it might shock ur sixth too.
i ve read a few indian analysts giving opinions against RUSSIAN weapons and un reliable tecnology,cuz the fact is they r tired of over hauling their russian aircrafts and their birds r keep on crashing
except MKI

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

yes Mig 35 is front runner contander if russian cant sell it if they offer it to pakistan PAF will be more than happy to buy

they'd love to but it will hault their millitary partnership wid india,n india is investing much for new millitary developments in russia.
russia will never like to lose this.

 

[Super Falcon]

hahahhaha now its american turn to make some money from india arent they they will suck even ............... for indian money to sell them their weapons what ever india asks they will bring it on plate thats why india canceled deal od multi billlion dollar with european firm airbus of airrefueling and went to boeing

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

U.S. arming india (especially Air Force) would have serious geo-political ramifications in the region. We know that. hindoostanys know that. Americans know that.

U.S. defence companies would be happy to sell to indian.....Russians would be furious if indian opted for American aircrafts. Pakistanis would be furious that America Congress allows such a sale to attain approval. I don't doubt that if such a deal took place, we'd look towards Russia....Perhaps try to act as a go-between for China and Russia, encourage tri-lateral cooperation.

Who knows. We have to exercise some balance, as long as we are operating U.S. origin aircrafts and rely on their spares and tech. support --we have to work with them (Lockheed Martin Corporation, and the U.S.) on diplomatic/professional level

PAF knows what they are doing and how to do it.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

U.S. arming india (especially Air Force) would have serious geo-political ramifications in the region. We know that. hindoostanys know that. Americans know that.

U.S. defence companies would be happy to sell to indian.....Russians would be furious if indian opted for American aircrafts. Pakistanis would be furious that America Congress allows such a sale to attain approval. I don't doubt that if such a deal took place, we'd look towards Russia....Perhaps try to act as a go-between for China and Russia, encourage tri-lateral cooperation.

Who knows. We have to exercise some balance, as long as we are operating U.S. origin aircrafts and rely on their spares and tech. support --we have to work with them (Lockheed Martin Corporation, and the U.S.) on diplomatic/professional level

PAF knows what they are doing and how to do it.

totally agreed.

 

[Rank]

rafale ke paise tumhare abbo denge kya
i think only J-10B is the existable alternative for the purchase of F-16block 52

Well if you have guts to talk to me face to face (like this way)... then i will give you the answer of this question that "kis kay abu paisay dengay aur kisko deengay"

Secondly this is not the way to talk with anyone even either Indian or Pakistani. Well we are here to discuss Military related matters. We are not here to make this forum like Bharatraksha and few other forums where people always try to show off that we have blaa bla etc.

My request to you is to be carefull next time.

Thanks,

Nightrider kindly watch ur words he is our most respected member u should respect him he have contributed for the forum next time when u reply kindly watch whom u r messing with stealth is like us and we are like stealth if any one say anything to you and stealth it like he said to me and insulted the forum i will not going to forgive next time watch ur words.

Stealth Kindly on my request forgive him forgiving is a better option.

Thank you very much for support "already forgve him"

True but bro wat makes you think PAF will go for rafales? and do you think we have the funds for that boss?

Dear i am just giving my opinion. If we don't go for more J10 and save money for next 5 years, we can easily go for Rafale. I didnt mean that we will cut off our current deals and apply for rafale. Rafale is good for Pakistan as compared to F16 because "No String attached" and spares and everything "in deal time frame". We already have French weapons especially "Submarine and Mirage" so if we will go for another French deal its good for Pakistan and France relation. I know Rafale is a bit expensive as compared to F16 but take a look at this example.

Consider a car that is cheap but for which the dealer gives restrictions that you won’t take it to places like Muree or Lahore. Is that one better OR the one which is a bit expensive but there are no dealer-imposed restrictions on it?

yaar abu ko beach main mat lao.stealth bhi bhut gali galoch janta hai dekh ker haan.

ya PHD ke hoi hey mainay lol

The time frame is absolutely wrong. 18 F-16s will reach pakistan by the end of 2011 and if Pakistan does execute option for 18 more then all 36 will be here in pak by the end of 2013. Mark my words IAF MRCA tender will be stretched to atleast another year or even couple of more years, then it will take about a year to finalize the configuration. Production line will be installed in India which could take couple of years. then only by 2016-17 or so the first batch of the MRCA will be handed over to IAF. Indians can play fanboys as much they want but i am just being realistic.

Stealth
I know you have some reservations about the F16s and especially US. However, if you look at the number of F16s on order, do you see something significant? PAF and Pakistan in its current financial state cannot buy, maintain and run a fleet of fighters like the rafale. Secondly what advantage will the rafale give you that a developed FC20 will not give you? And why do think will the french be anymore generous to you than the Americans,since you will ask them for a loan you may well not be able to pay.
I think you have to look at the bigger picture and the painting on the wall is that we will continue to indegenize and incorporate tech only rather than expensive fighters. In this light it makes sense to buy f16s in small numbers especially in the light of the missiles and other goodies that you get with them. The latter may well be more important than the planes themselves. Our position with regards to Indian acquisitions needs to also be understood. We will never mount an agressive campaign against anyone and most of our war will be defensive. if that is the case, then all that we need is credible deterrent rather than matching them number for number, which will not be possible.
regards
Araz

@Growler

Man 126 Aircraft deal and 18 aircraft deal (huge difference between such deal). In 8 years (2005 - 2013) we will get 36 Aircraft (if US delivers those aircrafts in deal time frame). I think while posting you forgot our past deals with US.

About IAF MRCA deal, it is still not finalized. Count the days after the deal is finalized because deal will finalize in 2010 or 2011. Now count days from 2011 – 2017. In 6 year they will get 126 aircrafts as opposed to the 36 that Pakistan will get in 8 years

Point to be noted, count deals days just like:

* PAF 2005 - 2013 (8 years and just 36 Aircrafts). The deal is just on paper. We cannot trust USA to fulfill the deal.
* IAF 2011 - 2017 (6 years and 126 aircraft including extra options like re-fueler etc). Israel is an active lobby against Pakistan and the only way US has to recover her economy is through selling weapons to India.




@Araz
Dear no doubt that AMERICAN Weapons are best in quality and technology. It is a fact that we cannot match ourselves with India. As far as minimum deterrence is concerned, being defensive is nothing. In case of a long term war, we will have to be on an offensive and for that we will need more weapons; the weapons that will be required to penetrate in and heavily damage enemy installations. In today’s times, the most powerful of the forces should be airforce, in my opinion.

On a side note, I never understand what “minimum deterrence” actually means.

About FC20 China is far behind in weapons technology. Still China is using Russian engines. On the other hand Rafale is expensive but has Quality. In next few years 5 Rafale will become a much more mature platform as compared to China FC20. The reason being that China still can not make a good Aircraft engine.

I know Rafale is a bit expensive as compared to F16 but take a look at this example.

Consider a car that is cheap but for which the dealer gives restrictions that you won’t take it to places like Muree or Lahore. Is that one better OR the one which is a bit expensive but there are no dealer-imposed restrictions on it?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

@Growler

Man 126 Aircraft deal and 18 aircraft deal (huge difference between such deal). In 8 years (2005 - 2013) we will get 36 Aircraft (if US delivers those aircrafts in deal time frame). I think while posting you forgot our past deals with US.

About IAF MRCA deal, it is still not finalized. Count the days after the deal is finalized because deal will finalize in 2010 or 2011. Now count days from 2011 – 2017. In 6 year they will get 126 aircrafts as opposed to the 36 that Pakistan will get in 8 years

Point to be noted, count deals days just like:

* PAF 2005 - 2013 (8 years and just 36 Aircrafts). The deal is just on paper. We cannot trust USA to fulfill the deal.
* IAF 2011 - 2017 (6 years and 126 aircraft including extra options like re-fueler etc). Israel is an active lobby against Pakistan and the only way US has to recover her economy is through selling weapons to India.

Again. Absolutely rubbish.
I dough you comprehended anything from my previous simple english post.
Looks like you have a personal issue with F-16s and US but let me enlighten you that PAK-F-16 deal time frame consisted more of "political" bargaining then anything else. PAF only send a formal request in 2006 for F-16 package such as new F-16s MLU and armaments. then the issue was debated and debated and debated in US congress and until late 2007 did the US finally agreed and then in 2008 the work begun, and the first batch of block 15 F-16s went to US for MLU along with PAF technicians for training etc. Kindly use google and find out yourself that it took Greece Poland Chile about the same time frame for induction after a finalized contract.

I have no freaking idea whats up with you an IAF so lately. So how did you come to a conclusion that once the MRCA contract is finalized in 2010-11 all 126 will be operational in IAF by 2017? Are you kidding me? In your analogy you are not even counting on (IAF personal configuration of the aircraft, construction of assembly line, normal delays in projects such as observed in many Indian defence acquisition) time frame. or are you just saying for the sake of argument. and then you are saying the only way for US to recover its economy is by selling arms to India? Kindly put on your thinking cap and be realistic.

 

[Super Falcon]

wel wel wel my conclusion is PAF buy this F 16 batch than stop buying anymore. F 16 and start buying J 10B atleast not 36 it will not make any difference to indian Airforce strength they already got Mig 29K which their navy uses and for them oue airforce should be ready to counter them. their is a small solution to the probleum if Paf buy atleast 60 odd J 10 and along with 250 JF 17 than we should buy20 to 30 eurofighter tphoon it will make life easy for PAF to counter any indian threat and plz do not forget i asked for small numbers of eurofighter which can take paf to 2030 without any probleum not matter what india buys in exercise eurofighter given tough fight to F 22 and there is not better fighter jet in world than F 22 if eurofighter has given F 22 run for their money than any indian acusation wont make any difference and remember its not only fighter jets PAF needs our crotale will be retired soon and spada will replace it we need other air defence missile system for high altitude to take it out and indian drones which they buy from israel will fly on high altitudes and their MRCA too and buy some new radar system which india is filling it self very quickly we lack in this matter we need to utilize our money very careffully

 

[Super Falcon]

i know it will cost alot to paf if paf plans for next 10 years funds the can do it and some weapons they can get on easy loans too if they play this game politically with france and UK

 

[Super Falcon]

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