Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[araz]

$2.43 b for 12 F-16 Block-72. Seriously, what are they loading into these contracts? These DSCA figures have got to be inflated for Congress buy-in -- I can't see how an actual contract could total to $200+ m per F-16 in a 5-year term, or even 10-year term. @SQ8

What was the cost of the 8 block 52s which we were being sold with a PDR? I thought it was around 800 million. Phillipines does not have the infrastructure which is probably why it is so expensive. Plus it will include armaments as well. So probably the cost is justifiable. I think knowing Phillipines there may be backhanders involved on both sides as is the case in most deals these days. Additionally are these the first ones with Pratt and Whitney engines? If so are there integration costs as well?
A

 

[Trailer23]

Thanks my heart broke into 4 pieces two atria & two ventricle

Well you better patch up that heart of yours & remove any and all hopes of getting any more F-16's (period).

The problem is every time some meets a US Official - people automatically start assuming that F-16's are coming (new OR used).

COAS, FM Qureshi, Dr. Moeed Yusuf etc. - [people think a secret deal is in place].

Now, because we won't give them the Bases they need, its FATF & also F-16's (surely).

PMIK's point was valid & something that was on every sane person's mind. What exactly were the Americans hoping to achieve from Bases in Pakistan that they couldn't for 2-decades within Afghanistan? Afterall Afghanistan is the size of Texas, New Mexico & possible Oklahoma put together.

Logical Answer: China

Coming back to F-16's that people have stated over & over is that we will keep getting spares for them - no doubt, but don't expect further upgrades - including the 13 we got off RJAF (No. 19 Sqn).

Sure, once there is a change is US Leadership, we can start this F-16 conversation all over again. As long as Biden & Democrats are in power, be happy with what you have.

 

[Scorpiooo]

$2.43 b for 12 F-16 Block-72. Seriously, what are they loading into these contracts? These DSCA figures have got to be inflated for Congress buy-in -- I can't see how an actual contract could total to $200+ m per F-16 in a 5-year term, or even 10-year term. @SQ8

Is some advance weapons involved in deal amounts? Or some hidden equipments

 

[Raider 21]

Well you better patch up that heart of yours & remove any and all hopes of getting any more F-16's (period).

The problem is every time some meets a US Official - people automatically start assuming that F-16's are coming (new OR used).

COAS, FM Qureshi, Dr. Moeed Yusuf etc. - [people think a secret deal is in place].

Now, because we won't give them the Bases they need, its FATF & also F-16's (surely).

PMIK's point was valid & something that was on every sane person's mind. What exactly were the Americans hoping to achieve from Bases in Pakistan that they couldn't for 2-decades within Afghanistan? Afterall Afghanistan is the size of Texas, New Mexico & possible Oklahoma put together.

Logical Answer: China

Coming back to F-16's that people have stated over & over is that we will keep getting spares for them - no doubt, but don't expect further upgrades - including the 13 we got off RJAF (No. 19 Sqn).

Sure, once there is a change is US Leadership, we can start this F-16 conversation all over again. As long as Biden & Democrats are in power, be happy with what you have.

You'd have a good career as a politician

 

[Akh1112]

$2.43 b for 12 F-16 Block-72. Seriously, what are they loading into these contracts? These DSCA figures have got to be inflated for Congress buy-in -- I can't see how an actual contract could total to $200+ m per F-16 in a 5-year term, or even 10-year term. @SQ8

the price was inflated by 400m ish for the contract for the PhAF(due to that new move of standardising f16s now), the contract is a very barebones one with 2 amraams per jet etc

 

[SQ8]

$2.43 b for 12 F-16 Block-72. Seriously, what are they loading into these contracts? These DSCA figures have got to be inflated for Congress buy-in -- I can't see how an actual contract could total to $200+ m per F-16 in a 5-year term, or even 10-year term. @SQ8

I think they also roll in other aspects of the entire deal such as facilities and continuous training into that package.

ten (10) F-16C Block 70/72 aircraft; two (2) F-16D Block 70/72 aircraft; fifteen (15) F100-PW-229EEP engines or F110-GE-129D engines; fifteen (15) Improved Programmable Display Generators (iPDG); fifteen (15) AN/APG-83 Advanced Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Scalable Agile Beam Radars (SABR); fifteen (15) Modular Mission Computers 7000AH; fifteen (15) LN-260 Embedded GPS/INS (EGI) with SAASM and PPS; twenty-four (24) Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) AIM-120C-7/C-8 or equivalent; one (1) AIM-120 Guidance Section; forty-eight (48) LAU-129 missile launchers; three (3) KMU-572 Laser Joint Direct Attack Munition (LJDAM) tail kits; six (6) Mk-82 500lb bombs; six (6) Mk-82 500lb Inert training bombs; six (6) FMU-152 or FMU-139 fuzes; six (6) Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods (ATP) or Litening ATP; fifteen (15) Multifunctional Information Display System Joint Tactical Radio System (MIDS-JTRS) aircraft terminals, and; fifteen (15) M61A1 Vulcan Anti-Aircraft 20mm guns. Also included are AN/ARC-238 radios; Advanced Identification Friend or Foe with Combined Interrogator Transponder and Mode 5; Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems II (JHMCS II) or Scorpion Hybrid Optical-based Inertial Tacker (HObIT); Integrated Electronic Warfare Suite; Electronic Combat International Security Assistance Program (ECISAP) support; AN/ALE-47 Countermeasure Dispenser Systems (CMDS); Joint Mission Planning Systems (JMPS) or equivalent; AIM-120 CATM; LAU-118 launchers with Advanced Launcher Interface Computer (ALIC); LAU-117 missile launchers; DSU-38 Precision Laser Guided Sensor for LJDAM; Harpoon interface adapter kits; PGU-28 High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) ammunition; PGU-27 ammunition training rounds (non HEI); Cartridge Actuated Devices/Propellant Actuated Devices (CAD/PAD); ARD-446 impulse cartridges; ARD-863 impulse cartridges; BBU-36/B impulse cartridges; BBU-35/B impulse cartridges; MK-124 smoke flares; MJU-7/B Flare Cartridge L463; BRU‐61 Bomb Racks; BRU‐57 bomb racks; MAU‐12 bomb racks and TER‐9A triple ejection racks; weapons support, test equipment, and missile containers; chaff and flare; Night Vision Devices (NVD) and support equipment and spares; secure communications; cryptographic equipment; aircraft and personnel support and test equipment; integration and test; weapons, ammunition, pylons, launcher adaptors, weapons interfaces, fuel tanks, and attached hardware; travel pods, precision measurement equipment laboratory, calibration, and simulators; spare and repair parts, repair and return services; maps, publications, and technical documentation; studies and surveys; classified / unclassified software and software support; personnel training and training equipment; facilities and facility management, design and/or construction services; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistical and program support. The estimated total cost is $2.43 billion.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Simple one thing they (Phillipines) can afford it , so they are having it , we cant afford so we dont have it.

thats way we should be happy with our old gold f16 and JFT

 

[Trailer23]

You'd have a good career as a politician

Everything mentioned above a pretty much straight forward facts. Yeah everyone loves the F-16's - even the ones who want us to get rid of 'em a.s.a.p.

But, we raped the conversation so much out of our F-16's that now this thread is relegated to Pictures & discussion of foreign F-16's.

Any hope that could have been of acquiring F-16's through the Afghanistan Peace Process went down the toilet when the US asked for Bases on our soil. Should've known that they'd find a way to screw us over and keep us hanging.

If there is anything we've picked up from the PMIK's interview with HBO is that Biden (still) has no interest in engaging Pakistan. He has his lackeys' doing all the bidding for him.

F-16's are great & I love 'em, but we should make it more about us (for once) and less about the equipment.

Look at the past. Its either: Congress, Funds, Democrats, DoD, President(s), India...blah blah blah...

Further induction of F-16's is a distant dream...

 

[The Raven]

In that case we should work with China to start developing a ducted throttlable version of the PL-15 Missile, in a size similar to the Meteor, in anticipation for a more powerful WS-19 engine in a few years.

The Chinese are favouring multipulse rocket motors over ramjet engines for their long range AAM projects.

 

[FuturePAF]

The Chinese are favouring multipulse rocket motors over ramjet engines for their long range AAM projects.

If it works it’s works, either solution is fine as long as it outperforms the Meteor and can be carried by the JF-17

 

[Trailer23]

I think they also roll in other aspects of the entire deal such as facilities and continuous training into that package.

ten (10) F-16C Block 70/72 aircraft; two (2) F-16D Block 70/72 aircraft; fifteen (15) F100-PW-229EEP engines or F110-GE-129D engines; fifteen (15) Improved Programmable Display Generators (iPDG); fifteen (15) AN/APG-83 Advanced Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Scalable Agile Beam Radars (SABR); fifteen (15) Modular Mission Computers 7000AH; fifteen (15) LN-260 Embedded GPS/INS (EGI) with SAASM and PPS; twenty-four (24) Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) AIM-120C-7/C-8 or equivalent; one (1) AIM-120 Guidance Section; forty-eight (48) LAU-129 missile launchers; three (3) KMU-572 Laser Joint Direct Attack Munition (LJDAM) tail kits; six (6) Mk-82 500lb bombs; six (6) Mk-82 500lb Inert training bombs; six (6) FMU-152 or FMU-139 fuzes; six (6) Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods (ATP) or Litening ATP; fifteen (15) Multifunctional Information Display System Joint Tactical Radio System (MIDS-JTRS) aircraft terminals, and; fifteen (15) M61A1 Vulcan Anti-Aircraft 20mm guns. Also included are AN/ARC-238 radios; Advanced Identification Friend or Foe with Combined Interrogator Transponder and Mode 5; Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems II (JHMCS II) or Scorpion Hybrid Optical-based Inertial Tacker (HObIT); Integrated Electronic Warfare Suite; Electronic Combat International Security Assistance Program (ECISAP) support; AN/ALE-47 Countermeasure Dispenser Systems (CMDS); Joint Mission Planning Systems (JMPS) or equivalent; AIM-120 CATM; LAU-118 launchers with Advanced Launcher Interface Computer (ALIC); LAU-117 missile launchers; DSU-38 Precision Laser Guided Sensor for LJDAM; Harpoon interface adapter kits; PGU-28 High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) ammunition; PGU-27 ammunition training rounds (non HEI); Cartridge Actuated Devices/Propellant Actuated Devices (CAD/PAD); ARD-446 impulse cartridges; ARD-863 impulse cartridges; BBU-36/B impulse cartridges; BBU-35/B impulse cartridges; MK-124 smoke flares; MJU-7/B Flare Cartridge L463; BRU‐61 Bomb Racks; BRU‐57 bomb racks; MAU‐12 bomb racks and TER‐9A triple ejection racks; weapons support, test equipment, and missile containers; chaff and flare; Night Vision Devices (NVD) and support equipment and spares; secure communications; cryptographic equipment; aircraft and personnel support and test equipment; integration and test; weapons, ammunition, pylons, launcher adaptors, weapons interfaces, fuel tanks, and attached hardware; travel pods, precision measurement equipment laboratory, calibration, and simulators; spare and repair parts, repair and return services; maps, publications, and technical documentation; studies and surveys; classified / unclassified software and software support; personnel training and training equipment; facilities and facility management, design and/or construction services; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistical and program support. The estimated total cost is $2.43 billion.

Add Auto GCAS along that list.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think they also roll in other aspects of the entire deal such as facilities and continuous training into that package.

ten (10) F-16C Block 70/72 aircraft; two (2) F-16D Block 70/72 aircraft; fifteen (15) F100-PW-229EEP engines or F110-GE-129D engines; fifteen (15) Improved Programmable Display Generators (iPDG); fifteen (15) AN/APG-83 Advanced Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Scalable Agile Beam Radars (SABR); fifteen (15) Modular Mission Computers 7000AH; fifteen (15) LN-260 Embedded GPS/INS (EGI) with SAASM and PPS; twenty-four (24) Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) AIM-120C-7/C-8 or equivalent; one (1) AIM-120 Guidance Section; forty-eight (48) LAU-129 missile launchers; three (3) KMU-572 Laser Joint Direct Attack Munition (LJDAM) tail kits; six (6) Mk-82 500lb bombs; six (6) Mk-82 500lb Inert training bombs; six (6) FMU-152 or FMU-139 fuzes; six (6) Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods (ATP) or Litening ATP; fifteen (15) Multifunctional Information Display System Joint Tactical Radio System (MIDS-JTRS) aircraft terminals, and; fifteen (15) M61A1 Vulcan Anti-Aircraft 20mm guns. Also included are AN/ARC-238 radios; Advanced Identification Friend or Foe with Combined Interrogator Transponder and Mode 5; Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems II (JHMCS II) or Scorpion Hybrid Optical-based Inertial Tacker (HObIT); Integrated Electronic Warfare Suite; Electronic Combat International Security Assistance Program (ECISAP) support; AN/ALE-47 Countermeasure Dispenser Systems (CMDS); Joint Mission Planning Systems (JMPS) or equivalent; AIM-120 CATM; LAU-118 launchers with Advanced Launcher Interface Computer (ALIC); LAU-117 missile launchers; DSU-38 Precision Laser Guided Sensor for LJDAM; Harpoon interface adapter kits; PGU-28 High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) ammunition; PGU-27 ammunition training rounds (non HEI); Cartridge Actuated Devices/Propellant Actuated Devices (CAD/PAD); ARD-446 impulse cartridges; ARD-863 impulse cartridges; BBU-36/B impulse cartridges; BBU-35/B impulse cartridges; MK-124 smoke flares; MJU-7/B Flare Cartridge L463; BRU‐61 Bomb Racks; BRU‐57 bomb racks; MAU‐12 bomb racks and TER‐9A triple ejection racks; weapons support, test equipment, and missile containers; chaff and flare; Night Vision Devices (NVD) and support equipment and spares; secure communications; cryptographic equipment; aircraft and personnel support and test equipment; integration and test; weapons, ammunition, pylons, launcher adaptors, weapons interfaces, fuel tanks, and attached hardware; travel pods, precision measurement equipment laboratory, calibration, and simulators; spare and repair parts, repair and return services; maps, publications, and technical documentation; studies and surveys; classified / unclassified software and software support; personnel training and training equipment; facilities and facility management, design and/or construction services; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistical and program support. The estimated total cost is $2.43 billion.

I guess the GSE is a one time, upfront cost. It'll be interesting to see how the follow-on Block-70/72 contracts shape up. I imagine they'll cost less.

 

[SQ8]

I guess the GSE is a one time, upfront cost. It'll be interesting to see how the follow-on Block-70/72 contracts shape up. I imagine they'll cost less.

They generally do - look at the contracts for SK or UAE as examples. Their last block-60 order with 61 upgrade costs relatively less per unit than the original.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]