Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Its sad that such a beauty and beast machine, and PAF can not get their hands on its latest models, F-16's always kept the balance of Power in S.Asia , I hope America and PAF works towards some sort of deal for 18-36 F-16V's with option of upgrading PAF existing Fleet to V Standards.

It seems highly unlikely that any of the above will ever come to fruition. However, in case we still have that uncontrolled desire or just desperate to acquire more F16s, or upgrades to the existing fleet, well then it will all depend on what we have to offer in return, (think of musharraf days), and you will have your answer. Let's put it this way; the price will be very steep in national dignity and sovereignty.

IMHO the PAF will continue pursuing new F-16s, even if the chances are low.

The PAF will want to use the existing infrastructure, and the original plan (before the earthquake) was for 55 new F-16s.

I don't think the PAF will succeed, but from AHQ's standpoint, the idea is, 'keep pushing; if we get it, then great, if not, then we just keep moving forward.' It's a due diligence thing at this point.

 

[Goritoes]

IMHO the PAF will continue pursuing new F-16s, even if the chances are low.

The PAF will want to use the existing infrastructure, and the original plan (before the earthquake) was for 55 new F-16s.

I don't think the PAF will succeed, but from AHQ's standpoint, the idea is, 'keep pushing; if we get it, then great, if not, then we just keep moving forward.' It's a due diligence thing at this point.

I think Problem here is that PAF don't want to pay the full price for the fighters, it could be because we don't have money or maybe because US once took Pakistan's money and also never delivered the fighters, instead they get some Wheat . F-16's is very potent fighter even today, with right package and good pilots it can take on any fighter jet including Rafale, Typhoon , Su35 and even to some Degree F-35's , and PAF knows its potential hence they always try to get their hands on some. Chances are very low that we may see more F-16's in PAF but we never know when uncle SAM change their interests in region and their mind about getting cozy with Pakistan.

 

[Raja Porus]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1099945128687529984

https://twitter.com/x/status/1376485772690399233

I counted:
-10× cluster munitions
-2×AAMs
-2×Drop Tanks.
Certainly it is irreplaceable...
But what if the drop tanks have to be dropped as 2×cluster munitions on each wing is attached to the drop tanks?

9× cluster munitions on a single mirage!
A single package might be enough for more then an IBG.

 

[GriffinsRule]

He is correct all Blk70 are standard version you can't add anything decided by then Sec Asper there will be no blk72 unless PAF opted V upgrades on used Airframes

LM has no issue offering both engines. Why would they limit potential customers with P&W fleets by not offering it as an option?
Nothing out of their pocket.

The F-16 Block 72 for Indonesia: The Ideal Bridge to 5th Gen Capabilities

The F-16 Block 72 is the latest version of the F-16 and delivers cutting-edge technology to the Indonesian Air Force (IDAF) in the most advanced F-16 configuration on the market today.

www.lockheedmartin.com

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/aero/documents/F-16/Jan20_Product%20Card%20F-16%20Block%207072%20media.pdf

In fact Morocco has ordered Block 72 with P&W engines.

Morocco – F-16 Block 72 New Purchase | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

 

[SQ8]

9× cluster munitions on a single mirage!
A single package might be enough for more then an IBG.

Provided it gets through for a straight run in and if they all happily line up. IBGs with their embedded Tungskas , shilkas, Akash’s sitting behind Flot along with Manpads will extract a heavy cost on any PAF CAS sortie.

The best way to throw away aircraft is CAS.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Provided it gets through for a straight run in and if they all happily line up. IBGs with their embedded Tungskas , shilkas, Akash’s sitting behind Flot along with Manpads will extract a heavy cost on any PAF CAS sortie.

The best way to throw away aircraft is CAS.

There’s a difference between solely an anti-armor bombing mission and CAS, and it’s in the name. CAS is close Air support, a part of combined arms warfare, to support the troops on the ground. No jet will ever attack anything by itself. In combined arms the ground forces clear the SAMs for the aircraft and the aircraft clear the armor for the ground forces. Would obviously be unwise to just throw mirages at them until one gets through. The mirages will also have air cover from other aircraft. While the enemy will have the same. And our ground based AD will also be present.

Basically both sides with have everything that the other has doing basically the same thing, it will come down to which side does it better tactically, has the geographical and logistical advantage, has better training and morale, has better technology, so on and so forth.
CAS is not the best way to throw aircraft away, rather it’s the best use of dedicated strike aircraft in a war. That’s why the strongest countries have planes dedicated to CAS. And those aren’t really any better protected against SAMs than our mirages, since those dedicated aircraft are sub-sonic and less maneuverable. They just believe in their combined arms strategies for their aircraft and ground forces to keep each other safe.

 

[Blacklight]

9× cluster munitions on a single mirage!
A single package might be enough for more then an IBG.

I think 2 on the center-line? 4 each under each wing = 10?

 

[Raja Porus]

I think 2 on the center-line? 4 each under each wing = 10?
View attachment 736895
View attachment 736896

Yes, I mistakenly wrote it from the tweet but I had written 10 in my reply on PDF.

 

[Bilal.]

Provided it gets through for a straight run in and if they all happily line up. IBGs with their embedded Tungskas , shilkas, Akash’s sitting behind Flot along with Manpads will extract a heavy cost on any PAF CAS sortie.

The best way to throw away aircraft is CAS.

Is it feasible to develop an REK for Hijara cluster bombs?

 

[Blacklight]

LM has no issue offering both engines. Why would they limit potential customers with P&W fleets by not offering it as an option?
Nothing out of their pocket.

The F-16 Block 72 for Indonesia: The Ideal Bridge to 5th Gen Capabilities

The F-16 Block 72 is the latest version of the F-16 and delivers cutting-edge technology to the Indonesian Air Force (IDAF) in the most advanced F-16 configuration on the market today.

www.lockheedmartin.com

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/aero/documents/F-16/Jan20_Product%20Card%20F-16%20Block%207072%20media.pdf

In fact Morocco has ordered Block 72 with P&W engines.

Morocco – F-16 Block 72 New Purchase | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

How Lockheed Martin plans to speed up sales with commoditised F-16
5 September 2020

New F-16s Will All Be Sold In A Single Base Model Configuration With A Standardized Price
September 10, 2020
The new standard Viper configuration will have a default set of "avionics, mission systems, an active electronically scanned array [AESA] radar, electronic warfare suite, Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System and an engine," according to FlightGlobal, though it is not clear what those specific systems will be. Lockheed Martin has already been pushing toward standardizing the Viper line with its Block 70/72 F-16s and the related F-16V upgrade package that brings older jets up to a similar configuration.

As to NEW PAF Vipers -
Parde mein rehne do, parda na uthao
Parda jo uth gaya to bhed khul jayega

 

[Scorpiooo]

Generali

LM has no issue offering both engines. Why would they limit potential customers with P&W fleets by not offering it as an option?
Nothing out of their pocket.

The F-16 Block 72 for Indonesia: The Ideal Bridge to 5th Gen Capabilities

The F-16 Block 72 is the latest version of the F-16 and delivers cutting-edge technology to the Indonesian Air Force (IDAF) in the most advanced F-16 configuration on the market today.

www.lockheedmartin.com

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed-martin/aero/documents/F-16/Jan20_Product%20Card%20F-16%20Block%207072%20media.pdf

In fact Morocco has ordered Block 72 with P&W engines.

Morocco – F-16 Block 72 New Purchase | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil

Generalization of GE engine (block 70) means minimizing of cost for export to limited bughat forces.. so they can afford it

Any force which can afford to pay extra for specialization .. will definitely have option for P&W (block 72) engines and other enhancement ..

How Lockheed Martin plans to speed up sales with commoditised F-16
5 September 2020

New F-16s Will All Be Sold In A Single Base Model Configuration With A Standardized Price
September 10, 2020
The new standard Viper configuration will have a default set of "avionics, mission systems, an active electronically scanned array [AESA] radar, electronic warfare suite, Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System and an engine," according to FlightGlobal, though it is not clear what those specific systems will be. Lockheed Martin has already been pushing toward standardizing the Viper line with its Block 70/72 F-16s and the related F-16V upgrade package that brings older jets up to a similar configuration.

As to NEW PAF Vipers -
Parde mein rehne do, parda na uthao
Parda jo uth gaya to bhed khul jayega

@Blacklight. See you after long time .. hope everything is well ...

 

[Blacklight]

Just food for thought, how will this impact existing (and possibly new) F16 users?

‘Don’t expect more money’ for additional F-35s in FY22, lawmakers tell an embattled Lockheed
1 day ago

 

[Scorpiooo]

Just food for thought, how will this impact existing (and possibly new) F16 users?

‘Don’t expect more money’ for additional F-35s in FY22, lawmakers tell an embattled Lockheed
1 day ago

More money for GE and LM
For old GE user it will benefit due to low bughat cost ... no change in infrastructure

For old P&W (like Pakistan) have to create new infrastructure for GE engines maintenance.. which mean increase cost upfront ..

For New user they have no concern as they have to create entirely new infrastructure.... instead this block 70 ( bughat and standardized) version will be ecnomical and fusible for them to operate and maintain

 

[arjunk]

I expect nothing less than this for all the disappointments we've endured. I hope it fulfils all the fanboys' wishlists:

Who needs a nuke when you can carry 4,640kg of explosives in 1 flight...

 

[GriffinsRule]

How Lockheed Martin plans to speed up sales with commoditised F-16
5 September 2020

New F-16s Will All Be Sold In A Single Base Model Configuration With A Standardized Price
September 10, 2020
The new standard Viper configuration will have a default set of "avionics, mission systems, an active electronically scanned array [AESA] radar, electronic warfare suite, Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System and an engine," according to FlightGlobal, though it is not clear what those specific systems will be. Lockheed Martin has already been pushing toward standardizing the Viper line with its Block 70/72 F-16s and the related F-16V upgrade package that brings older jets up to a similar configuration.

As to NEW PAF Vipers -
Parde mein rehne do, parda na uthao
Parda jo uth gaya to bhed khul jayega

Even your link mentions both block 70 and 72 ...